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  1. #61
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    As an MP it was her job to police the troops. She helped to curb abuses within the military. Her entire career was spent keeping those who might otherwise abuse their station from doing so. No the MP's don't stop all abuse, but dammit they do a thankless job much like the police. The only difference is that the people she was policing were all trained killers. The funny thing about this interchange between the two of you is that she woke up everyday and labored to mitigate the very same kind of abuses you complain about among the domestic police force.

    I'm as quick to get pissed about the presumption of guilt that some officers apply to everything as the next man. I was a hard charging civil libertarian when it came to studying police abuse in Criminal Procedure in law school. That zeal was tempered however, by an understanding that the policies and structures (and the incentives they create) within our police forces frequently are as culpable as the officers themselves (if not more). More importantly, I knew not to cherry pick convenient anecdotes and use them to indict all police generally. I think there are comparable percentages of bad apples in all professions. It's no more fair to assume that the police generally are power hungry assholes, than it is to assume that all academics are nancy boys.

    On a structural level, there is much that can and should be done within domestic police forces to mitigate abuse. But blaming good people for having to work within a flawed system, or worse finding egregious examples to confirm your prejudices about cops generally is just dumb.

    It's said that without a minimum level of mutual understanding between opposing view points, no compromise or change can occur. Taking a deep breath and listening a little might do you some good.

    Just my $0.02

    EDIT - Not to mention that the police daily face bullshit that the rest of us can only imagine for pay that isn't astronomical. Some do it for the power and the thrill, but most do it for us.
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  2. #62
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I think it's ridiculous when people treat all cops like they're bad guys.

    With that said, cops should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. The problem is, there is a lot of policy in place (like DiscoBiscuit said) that encourages bad policing.

    I also think civil asset forfeiture and other spin offs from the Wars on Drugs and Terrorism are some of the worst things to happen to civil liberty in the country's history. It doesn't matter if most cops are using it "for good reason" or not. It shouldn't exist in the first place because it encourages the wrong kind of police work and has far too high of a potential for abuse.

    No knock search warrants are also pretty high on my "should not exist" list. Saying that it's for the safety of the police officers is simply illogical and obviously not true.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kEpZWGgJks

    Radley Balko on the Militarization of America's Police Force | VICE United States

    The term "War" should never be used when referencing the government vs. American citizens. It sets the tone for future relationships between the two.

    While I'm on a cop tangent, I also hate it when people use the "Well, if you just did what they said and didn't argue they wouldn't do x," argument. So basically, if you use your legal protections in the way that they were intended to be used but it inconveniences the cop, you're an asshole.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume
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  3. #63
    literally your mother PocketFullOf's Avatar
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    Its very dangerous in some neighborhoods that's why police are well trained. On the whole it probably isn't that dangerous but for those officers that work in dangerous areas what the average is does not matter.


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  4. #64
    Mojibake sprinkles's Avatar
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    I'd say it is dangerous but the danger is often relatively mitigated because they take so many precautions.

    Let's say the murder rate of cops really is 3.67 per 100,000. We also should consider what percentage of people committing these murders against cops know that they are killing an armed police officer?

    Considering that question, we should also ask how many more would be killed if they were unarmed, and how many are saved by body armor, or escaped death because they were covered by a partner in a life threatening situation.

    These are important points to consider because the average person doesn't have body armor or always somebody covering them just in case Crusty Bob over there decides he wants to have an attitude. On the other hand police know what they're getting into, are prepared and equipped for it, and still manage to get killed in significant amounts compared to the average Joe who probably doesn't even know it is coming most of the time.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I think it's ridiculous when people treat all cops like they're bad guys.
    I don't think anyone has said all police officers are bad guys or treated them as such.

    With that said, cops should be held to a higher standard than your average citizen. The problem is, there is a lot of policy in place (like DiscoBiscuit said) that encourages bad policing.
    That's true, but police departments lobby to keep those bad policies in place. The police are not blameless when it comes to policy.

    I also think civil asset forfeiture and other spin offs from the Wars on Drugs and Terrorism are some of the worst things to happen to civil liberty in the country's history. It doesn't matter if most cops are using it "for good reason" or not. It shouldn't exist in the first place because it encourages the wrong kind of police work and has far too high of a potential for abuse.

    While I'm on a cop tangent, I also hate it when people use the "Well, if you just did what they said and didn't argue they wouldn't do x," argument. So basically, if you use your legal protections in the way that they were intended to be used but it inconveniences the cop, you're an asshole.
    The only real crime in this country is "disrespecting" someone who has more power than you.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #66
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I don't think anyone has said all police officers are bad guys or treated them as such.
    Yeah, that wasn't directed at anyone in this thread. It was a general statement about people's attitudes towards police and I don't think that anyone would argue that there are plenty of people with that viewpoint.

    That's true, but police departments lobby to keep those bad policies in place. The police are not blameless when it comes to policy.
    Yeah, I agree.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  7. #67
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's not a small part of the population that is abusing its power. That's what you just don't get. It's a majority. A majority isn't shooting people, but that's not the only way a police officer can abuse his or her power. Educate yourself on civil asset forfeiture.

    Policing for Profit | The Institute for Justice
    A majority. lol... You are truly brainwashed. I've barely even heard of civil asset forfeiture and I've been a patrol cop for almost 2 years.

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