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  1. #31
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Not sure if we're in agreement or not... I think we are based on this part of it all though. Yeah, to me it's an easy A answer with this.. they need guns because their job is dangerous.. unlike garbage collectors or nurses. It sort of got derailed because I have a feeling the OP isn't just wanting to discuss whether being a cop is dangerous or not.. so little nuances get mushed into this conversation as a result, like the thanklessness and such that respond to other little nuances that aren't directly related to the OP but are similar enough in nature that it doesn't qualify for a derail.
    Depends, there has been studies done that may point to why being a cop might be more dangerous in some situations, like the driving while black phenomena, but I won't be going too far into that. Like, police are more likely to respond more aggressively (or give more routine traffic stops) if a black person was driving.

    A lot of the problems cops face won't be fixed by getting more guns, tanks, and uniforms, it is by fixing a lot of the social issues that causes them.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I don't see why you're getting all worked up about what I said. You literally said you agree with me--which means I'm able to have a conversation with you. If I told you to make a red line with blue ink, and you told me "I need to use red ink for a red line or we just cannot talk about this" then it'd be no different. I said if people don't think being a police officer is dangerous, then there's nothing to discuss between us in particular. I have to shut it down, because it'll become petty banter from there on. You agree, so I fail to see the issue. Don't worry, I have a feeling no one is going to shut you down if you have a say about it. I would like to see you get a little less defensive right off the bat though just because I was in the military. I'm not going to try to destroy you just because you think very differently from me.

    The OP's title is "How dangerous is police work" or some shade of that. It doesn't have to be the world's most dangerous job for it to be a dangerous one, and dangerous enough. I don't see nearly as many janitors and such lose their lives in their line of work. Sorry, it's not just not classified as a dangerous job for a reason. Thankless, yeah, it is.. but not dangerous.
    You agree with me? You sure had me fooled.

    Like, almost all of them. Teachers have one, nurses have a whole week, labor day is for the masses, etc. etc. There's days all over the place if you bother to look. We really do issue out a lot of thank yous to all kinds of people all the time.. that doesn't mean work is totally appreciated either. You can tell a teacher thank you once in your lifetime, but there's probably 100 people who never really bother despite that teacher working really hard for them all. There's little pay in comparison to the importance of the issue, and a lot of unpaid hours go into it. Similarly, police work is not really paid all that highly considering the shit they deal with all the time, and a lot of unpaid hours go into the job just for the sake of doing the job right. You can say thank you, but overall, the day to day grind isn't really filled with gratitude at all. Particularly not from the people they're dealing with.
    Where's the memorial to all the teachers and nurses who have died while working?

    No one is forced to work any profession.. people don't DO it for the thanks. And being a police officer is NOT something you become for the money. The money alone is NOT worth the time and effort the job requires in comparison to other professions. Regardless, recognizing the people that help your day to day life behind the scenes should warrant some sort of appreciation, even if you don't particularly appreciate the way they're helping. It harms no one to do it. It has a heavy influential positive outcome on people and their morale, job performance, and such. And when your job involves dealing with anything from hurt, broken people to scumbags, making sure they know they're actually influencing things in a positive light is extremely important. It keeps people from burning out and seeing the negative. And it bring some recognition and light onto what actually goes on each day in the lives of cops, and that's important--because they aren't just that guy that pulls you over when you're speeding. They've got bigger roles to play. That's why it needs to be used. Because there are few alternatives with as many positive benefits vs costs ratios.

    You definitely don't need to thank them yourself. But as a society? It is important to recognize others--and the more dangerous and influential, the more spotlight, good and bad. It's why we have awards, and ceremonies, and parties.. we recognize those around us all the time. It's integrated in all around us. It seems a little... silly to have to explain that.
    There is one profession people have been forced into, the military draft (not to be confused with volunteering to join the military).

    Police officer pay is pretty good in many jurisdictions. In the St. Louis suburb I live in, police officer starting pay is over $50k a year (it's advertised on their website). That's higher than the median household income for the state. For a job that doesn't require a college degree, that's really good. But I would agree that the money isn't the primary reason (it's a strong secondary reason) most people become police officers. The primary reason most people become police officers is because they enjoy the sense of power and authority they can exert over other people. Police officers are a group of people who, by and large, weren't smart enough to do anything academically inclined, weren't talented enough to do anything athletically or artistically inclined, and weren't shrewd or charismatic enough to do anything politically inclined. Becoming a police officer is a way to "make up" for those inadequacies.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    My grandfather was actually stabbed in the head (survived) on a burglary call when he was an officer. One of his fellow officers- a friend- had his face blown off at a routine traffic stop. His pension is crap, by the way.

    I'd say it's a dangerous job on those stories alone, obviously. Stats aside. Stories aside. No one needs to a see a Trauma Olympics Pissing Contest to understand that it's on some level a job with very real hazards involved. Perhaps not every day, perhaps during the careers of some, never. But the potential is there. It can happen. And it does.
    Clearly because of those two incidents, police officers should be allowed to do whatever they want to whoever they want.

    Of course, life in general has its dangers, and overzealous idiots are everywhere (including within the police force). I do feel like improvements should be made in how individuals are evaluated for such 'positions of authority,' to reduce the chances of less (or non) hostile offenders and innocent people being hurt, though.

    OP seems redundant in this regard, overall- more just trying to continue an argument on a topic that has resulted in much outrage (I'm personally not getting into the recent shooting issue). Ultimately, it'll lead to talking in many, many overlapping circles, and nothing will change. It's a forum post. You wanna get on a soapbox and cry it out for us all through numbers, articles, and spreadsheets, great... but if it means that much to you, why not actually do something about it? Or sheesh, at least suggest something, beyond indignant arguing. And I don't mean walk around shouting with a sign, or assaulting strangers, obviously.

    You're intelligent and resourceful, right? You can figure something out.
    Typical response from someone who wants to stifle conversation.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    ^and to further the point, consider a police officer's job if they didn't have a firearm. If you think on that alone, you'd realize the nature of such an occupation. I've been in situations where the only thing that stopped a 350lb guy from fighting me was because I had a taser at my ready. And even that doesn't deter a lot of people that are motivated not to go to jail, intoxicated, not mentally/psychologically sound, etc. I don't even see why this is a debate.
    How do British police officers manage?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  5. #35
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    What's the point of this link? To show how dangerous it is to be a police officer? Clearly no police officers were actually in danger (except from each other) during that incident since the perpetrator didn't even have a real gun, but the police managed to kill a citizen anyway. Great job officers!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #36
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Clearly because of those two incidents, police officers should be allowed to do whatever they want to whoever they want.
    This reminds me of a poignant scene from The Simpsons.

    Marge: (says something innocuous about the fair)

    Lisa: You mean the state unfair.

    Marge: Yes, Lisa. That's what I mean. The state unfair.

    Bart: Zing!




    Typical response from someone who wants to stifle conversation.
    Not at all my desire.
    I'm not trying to control the thread conversation- merely sharing my own perspective & probing to understand the ultimate point behind yours.
    03/23 06:06:58 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:06:59 EcK: lex
    03/23 06:21:34 Nancynobullets: LEXXX *sacrifices a first born*
    03/23 06:21:53 Nancynobullets: We summon yooouuu
    03/23 06:29:07 Lexicon: I was sleeping!



    04/25 04:20:35 Patches: Don't listen to lex. She wants to birth a litter of kittens. She doesnt get to decide whats creepy

    02/16 23:49:38 ygolo: Lex is afk
    02/16 23:49:45 Cimarron: she's doing drugs with Jack

    03/05 19:27:41 Time: You can't make chat morbid. Lex does it naturally.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexicon View Post
    I'm not trying to control the thread conversation- merely sharing my own perspective & probing to understand the ultimate point behind yours.
    Opinions don't change overnight. Repeated exposure to this information, over time, does have a chance to alter opinions. One of the reasons some people blindly support everything the police do is their belief that police work is incredibly dangerous. Destroy that pillar and those people have less of a reason to lend their blind support to the police (state).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #38
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Where's the memorial to all the teachers and nurses who have died while working?
    Being someone about to go into the nursing profession, I have to say it's dry, boring, and slow and cushy in comparison to my previous career choices. I've seen more dangerous work at my old warehouse than I have in the hospital setting. The thing with teachers and nurses is, while their jobs are no less important, they're not as dangerous. People would argue that being a teacher is getting more hazardous with the increased incidents of school shootings and stuff, but overall most of the country that teaches or nurses don't go through much training in regards to how to not die. That's a powerful symbol right there that shows that their job isn't really based on staying alive in the first place--but rather details specific to their task. A good deal of the police training early on is centered on how to not get yourself killed. I think that speaks volumes on it.

    There are lots of nods of approval to teachers and nurses in their departments and in their own ways. It seems to make sense that instead of having monuments about them teaching about monuments, the monument happens to be a school, or a district, or a plaque in the building, etc.

    Police officer pay is pretty good in many jurisdictions. In the St. Louis suburb I live in, police officer starting pay is over $50k a year (it's advertised on their website). That's higher than the median household income for the state. For a job that doesn't require a college degree, that's really good.
    That's starting to change, and quickly.. police officers in my county require 60 college hours without a degree, but to get anywhere in the ranks you need one pretty much now. Just because on paper you don't need a degree doesn't mean police officers have a sweet spot. To put this in perspective: my sister works as a respiratory therapist, where the work is pretty cush. You have to know your shit, sure, but it's still a cush job. She makes more than the police officers in your county does--and she doesn't have to deal with AIDS infested people spitting in her face on purpose out of spite, mentally ill people trying to commit suicide, people screaming, running, attacking, etc. etc. all the time. That isn't even including the danger factor, or all the continuous training police officers need to go through. I know secretaries that make $50k+ a year, and their job is just paper pushing and filing and organizing. Cake work, easy money.

    Just because it's above the median household doesn't mean it's good money, or equal to the amount of effort and work put into it. Police work is one of those professions where, generally speaking, to be good at your job you're going to put in a fuck ton of unpaid, unthanked hours just to be at your best.

    The primary reason most people become police officers is because they enjoy the sense of power and authority they can exert over other people.
    We get it, you hate cops. No one cares, though. Becoming a cop isn't about power and authority. It isn't why I became a cop, and it isn't why my colleagues did either. I'm sure there are a select population that that profile fits.. but seriously, that is not the majority of the people.

    Typical response from someone who wants to stifle conversation.
    It's not stifling the conversation--you are. You're just whining and crying about how evil cops are.. And I'm saying if you think they're so corrupt, GO BE A COP. Go be the non-corrupt guy. Get in the ranks, push yourself forward, and fix the system at the source. You really aren't going to get anything done sitting here crying about how awful cops are. If we were actually debating something, sure, but there's no give here. "Dangerous" is subjective. Whether cops deal with danger is subjective. You think differently than I do.. and both of our points are valid on some levels, and invalid on others. You're not really discussing anything.. just arguing.

    Be the change you want to see. Become an investigator that investigates police corruption--there's plenty of it out there for you to dig your hate-filled claws into. Or become a politician and/or lobbyist and write legislation and work with it. It's a fair thing to say when you're just over and over again telling everyone, "Unless you agree with me you're wrong" and stifling conversation anyways.
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  9. #39
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    What's the point of this link? To show how dangerous it is to be a police officer? Clearly no police officers were actually in danger (except from each other) during that incident since the perpetrator didn't even have a real gun, but the police managed to kill a citizen anyway. Great job officers!
    Because every last thug out there with a gun is just using a plastic toy. That reminds me, I need to get my equipment upgraded to the kind that detects and notifies me which guns are real and which ones aren't. I've been meaning to do that!

    But in all seriousness, do you suggest we wait for them to take the first shot at us to figure that out? Let's be real now. Are you using any real world knowledge/experience in your statements, or are you just making idealistic statements off the cuff? You should really do some research into some of these incidents where officers are killed/severely injured due to violent individuals. You'll find that a lot of times it's not an officer being overly aggressive that gets them killed/injured, but the opposite; it's hesitation and not using the necessary force/means/tactics to stop/subdue/guard against a threat before a situation escalates out of control.


  10. #40
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    We get it, you hate cops. No one cares, though. Becoming a cop isn't about power and authority. It isn't why I became a cop, and it isn't why my colleagues did either. I'm sure there are a select population that that profile fits.. but seriously, that is not the majority of the people.
    You clearly don't know the difference between hate and criticism. I understand why, though. I attacked the Blue Line and that cannot be tolerated.

    It's not stifling the conversation--you are. You're just whining and crying about how evil cops are.. And I'm saying if you think they're so corrupt, GO BE A COP. Go be the non-corrupt guy. Get in the ranks, push yourself forward, and fix the system at the source. You really aren't going to get anything done sitting here crying about how awful cops are. If we were actually debating something, sure, but there's no give here. "Dangerous" is subjective. Whether cops deal with danger is subjective. You think differently than I do.. and both of our points are valid on some levels, and invalid on others. You're not really discussing anything.. just arguing.

    Be the change you want to see. Become an investigator that investigates police corruption--there's plenty of it out there for you to dig your hate-filled claws into. Or become a politician and/or lobbyist and write legislation and work with it. It's a fair thing to say when you're just over and over again telling everyone, "Unless you agree with me you're wrong" and stifling conversation anyways.
    That's your job. If you are a police officer and you're not fighting against police corruption, you're no better than the priests who turned a blind eye to pedophilia.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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