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  1. #21
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    A former member of the military is going to "shut me down"? I don't find that response surprising at all. That's how authoritarians think. No discussions. No negotiations. Do what I say or else.

    ....

    I didn't say the job is not dangerous, I said it's not the most dangerous.
    I don't see why you're getting all worked up about what I said. You literally said you agree with me--which means I'm able to have a conversation with you. If I told you to make a red line with blue ink, and you told me "I need to use red ink for a red line or we just cannot talk about this" then it'd be no different. I said if people don't think being a police officer is dangerous, then there's nothing to discuss between us in particular. I have to shut it down, because it'll become petty banter from there on. You agree, so I fail to see the issue. Don't worry, I have a feeling no one is going to shut you down if you have a say about it. I would like to see you get a little less defensive right off the bat though just because I was in the military. I'm not going to try to destroy you just because you think very differently from me.

    The OP's title is "How dangerous is police work" or some shade of that. It doesn't have to be the world's most dangerous job for it to be a dangerous one, and dangerous enough. I don't see nearly as many janitors and such lose their lives in their line of work. Sorry, it's not just not classified as a dangerous job for a reason. Thankless, yeah, it is.. but not dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Thankless? You gotta be kidding. How many professions have a memorial and a day set aside to observe their deaths?
    Like, almost all of them. Teachers have one, nurses have a whole week, labor day is for the masses, etc. etc. There's days all over the place if you bother to look. We really do issue out a lot of thank yous to all kinds of people all the time.. that doesn't mean work is totally appreciated either. You can tell a teacher thank you once in your lifetime, but there's probably 100 people who never really bother despite that teacher working really hard for them all. There's little pay in comparison to the importance of the issue, and a lot of unpaid hours go into it. Similarly, police work is not really paid all that highly considering the shit they deal with all the time, and a lot of unpaid hours go into the job just for the sake of doing the job right. You can say thank you, but overall, the day to day grind isn't really filled with gratitude at all. Particularly not from the people they're dealing with.

    All that aside, why does that even matter? Why does anyone need to be thanked simply for doing a job they chose to do? No one is forced to become a police officer.
    No one is forced to work any profession.. people don't DO it for the thanks. And being a police officer is NOT something you become for the money. The money alone is NOT worth the time and effort the job requires in comparison to other professions. Regardless, recognizing the people that help your day to day life behind the scenes should warrant some sort of appreciation, even if you don't particularly appreciate the way they're helping. It harms no one to do it. It has a heavy influential positive outcome on people and their morale, job performance, and such. And when your job involves dealing with anything from hurt, broken people to scumbags, making sure they know they're actually influencing things in a positive light is extremely important. It keeps people from burning out and seeing the negative. And it bring some recognition and light onto what actually goes on each day in the lives of cops, and that's important--because they aren't just that guy that pulls you over when you're speeding. They've got bigger roles to play. That's why it needs to be used. Because there are few alternatives with as many positive benefits vs costs ratios.

    You definitely don't need to thank them yourself. But as a society? It is important to recognize others--and the more dangerous and influential, the more spotlight, good and bad. It's why we have awards, and ceremonies, and parties.. we recognize those around us all the time. It's integrated in all around us. It seems a little... silly to have to explain that.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Actually, their paycheck is above average, from what I remember most get a stable income on top of healthcare. The police force, at least in parts of California, is unionized.

    Most of the police work day, on average, are prank calls (which includes calling 911 by accident,) domestic issues like domestic violence(short of using a gun), issues like shoplifting.....traffic accidents and patrol (like tickets,) possession of drugs....those sort of stuff.

    Violence to the point of using a gun is actually very few and far between.
    And what is your point? Sure, a majority of our calls consist of simple theft reports, tending to traffic related situations, checking false alarms and so on but we're also the first on scene to incidents involving violence and other unknown high-risk situations that no one else wants to deal with. So all that to say, we're not dodging bullets for the duration of our shift but we have voluntarily signed up for an often thankless job where we are put in more hazardous situations; where our life is on the line every single day. I don't expect anyone to tickle my balls for it, but a little understanding of our job is nice... and people crying "Oh they get paid quite enough!" I could do without. Who are you to say? What I can say is that if I had a wife who was a stay-at-home and any kids, it would be quite the struggle to get by comfortably. But it's whatever. People think and say what they want, even without an ounce of any first hand knowledge or experience.

  3. #23
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordpath View Post
    And what is your point? Sure, a majority of our calls consist of simple theft reports, tending to traffic related situations, checking false alarms and so on but we're also the first on scene to incidents involving violence and other unknown high-risk situations that no one else wants to deal with. So all that to say, we're not dodging bullets for the duration of our shift but we have voluntarily signed up for an often thankless job where we are put in more hazardous situations; where our life is on the line every single day. I don't expect anyone to tickle my balls for it, but a little understanding of our job is nice... and people crying "Oh they get paid quite enough!" I could do without. Who are you to say? What I can say is that if I had a wife who was a stay-at-home and any kids, it would be quite the struggle to get by comfortably. But it's whatever. People think and say what they want, even without an ounce of any first hand knowledge or experience.
    So do most people in the military force.

    So do nurses and doctors.

    So do garbage collectors.

    So do miners and oil drillers off in the ocean.

    So do fishermen out in the sea.

    So do construction workers that work on skyscrapers.

    So do......

    Do you really need swat gear and military gear for domestic issues like drug raids?

    Should one be living the life of a fishermen or oil driller if one wants dangerous in a job?

    I remember hearing a story where a small town decided to create a police force in their town. As a result, it completely wrecked their town. Not because the police force caught more crime in that town, but because of the pettiness of the police force itself.

  4. #24
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    stuff here.
    I'm not really seeing your point here. Nurses and military forces are completely different jobs. Yes, you DO need ample protection when RAIDING for drugs. Have you ever seen a raid? It's ridiculous, and it's one of the times plenty of horrible stuff can go wrong. Do you need the protection when making routine traffic stops? Probably not--which is why routine traffic cops are not wearing SWAT-style gear when they write you that speeding ticket. Even military personnel do not wear their gear unless the situation calls for it. We down-graded our gear to minimal needs every time. It's not practical for the people wearing it. The situation dictates what people need.

    I think that the militarization of the gear comes heavily from having a bunch of cheap/free army gear in a time where funding isn't exactly ample in any category. I've been in hospitals a lot lately.. and I have to say, I don't find it a dangerous job in nearly the same way as being a cop, or when I was in the army. The threats are entirely different. You're basically saying, "Well, kids in Arizona don't wear jackets so why should we here in Wisconsin?!" The environment, and things you're doing, call for the different apparel. Whether people agree with the SWAT-style or not is irrelevant to the OP.. but if we're going to have people saying police officers are "crying" and "boo-hoo"ing about their job, I definitely don't want to hear anyone bringing up garbage collectors and nurses.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member TheCheeseBurgerKing's Avatar
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    Policemen/women get too much shit from a lot of people.
    They are an easy bunch to bag on.

  6. #26
    Temporal Mechanic. Lexicon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The police would have us all believe that police work is the most dangerous job in the US. But is it really? Thankfully we have ways of actually measuring this, so we don't have to just take the word of the police.

    According to US Bureau of Labor Statistics, police officers don't make the top-10 of most dangerous jobs in the US.

    Infographic: Most dangerous jobs in America | TIME.com

    You might be thinking "Well, those professions don't have people deliberately trying to kill them". That's true. So let's take a look at how often police officers are actually murdered while on the job. We will exclude other deaths, like traffic accidents and heart attacks because almost every profession deals with those.

    In 2011, 33 police officers were killed by firearms. I can't find any data on other types of murder, like strangling and stabbing, but I assume they are very small since they aren't mentioned.

    There are 900,000 sworn officers in the US. There are a total of about 1.3 million officer including non-sworn officers, but I'll use the sworn number to make things look more favorable for the police.

    (33/900,00)*100,000=3.67. That gives a murder rate of 3.67 per 100,000.

    The murder rate for Americans, as a whole, is 4.8 per 100,000.

    My conclusion is that police work isn't nearly as dangerous as officers make it out to be. We're fed the line that police work is incredibly dangerous in an effort to gain public sympathy, which leads to bigger pensions at the expense of taxpayers. I wouldn't expect anything less from public sector unions and employees.


    My grandfather was actually stabbed in the head (survived) on a burglary call when he was an officer. One of his fellow officers- a friend- had his face blown off at a routine traffic stop. His pension is crap, by the way.

    I'd say it's a dangerous job on those stories alone, obviously. Stats aside. Stories aside. No one needs to a see a Trauma Olympics Pissing Contest to understand that it's on some level a job with very real hazards involved. Perhaps not every day, perhaps during the careers of some, never. But the potential is there. It can happen. And it does.

    Of course, life in general has its dangers, and overzealous idiots are everywhere (including within the police force). I do feel like improvements should be made in how individuals are evaluated for such 'positions of authority,' to reduce the chances of less (or non) hostile offenders and innocent people being hurt, though.

    OP seems redundant in this regard, overall- more just trying to continue an argument on a topic that has resulted in much outrage (I'm personally not getting into the recent shooting issue). Ultimately, it'll lead to talking in many, many overlapping circles, and nothing will change. It's a forum post. You wanna get on a soapbox and cry it out for us all through numbers, articles, and spreadsheets, great... but if it means that much to you, why not actually do something about it? Or sheesh, at least suggest something, beyond indignant arguing. And I don't mean walk around shouting with a sign, or assaulting strangers, obviously.

    You're intelligent and resourceful, right? You can figure something out.
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  7. #27
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'm not really seeing your point here. Nurses and military forces are completely different jobs. Yes, you DO need ample protection when RAIDING for drugs. Have you ever seen a raid? It's ridiculous, and it's one of the times plenty of horrible stuff can go wrong. Do you need the protection when making routine traffic stops? Probably not--which is why routine traffic cops are not wearing SWAT-style gear when they write you that speeding ticket. Even military personnel do not wear their gear unless the situation calls for it. We down-graded our gear to minimal needs every time. It's not practical for the people wearing it. The situation dictates what people need.

    I think that the militarization of the gear comes heavily from having a bunch of cheap/free army gear in a time where funding isn't exactly ample in any category. I've been in hospitals a lot lately.. and I have to say, I don't find it a dangerous job in nearly the same way as being a cop, or when I was in the army. The threats are entirely different. You're basically saying, "Well, kids in Arizona don't wear jackets so why should we here in Wisconsin?!" The environment, and things you're doing, call for the different apparel. Whether people agree with the SWAT-style or not is irrelevant to the OP.. but if we're going to have people saying police officers are "crying" and "boo-hoo"ing about their job, I definitely don't want to hear anyone bringing up garbage collectors and nurses.
    We are talking about what constitute as dangerous. And, in which I said, dangerous to the point of needing to use a gun is not too common, at least not as common as other incidents. Somehow, it went from that to being thankless and being in hazardous situations, which, garbage collectors are ALWAYS in hazardous situations as it is filth that these people are dealing with most days. Considering he decided to make comparisons, I noted comparisons to other dangerous, thankless, filthy, or sometimes (demoralizing) jobs.

  8. #28
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    We are talking about what constitute as dangerous. And, in which I said, dangerous to the point of needing to use a gun is not too common, at least not as common as other incidents. Somehow, it went from that to being thankless and being in hazardous situations....
    Not sure if we're in agreement or not... I think we are based on this part of it all though. Yeah, to me it's an easy A answer with this.. they need guns because their job is dangerous.. unlike garbage collectors or nurses. It sort of got derailed because I have a feeling the OP isn't just wanting to discuss whether being a cop is dangerous or not.. so little nuances get mushed into this conversation as a result, like the thanklessness and such that respond to other little nuances that aren't directly related to the OP but are similar enough in nature that it doesn't qualify for a derail.
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  9. #29
    Senior Member swordpath's Avatar
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    ^and to further the point, consider a police officer's job if they didn't have a firearm. If you think on that alone, you'd realize the nature of such an occupation. I've been in situations where the only thing that stopped a 350lb guy from fighting me was because I had a taser at my ready. And even that doesn't deter a lot of people that are motivated not to go to jail, intoxicated, not mentally/psychologically sound, etc. I don't even see why this is a debate.

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