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  1. #11
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Another important question is how much has militarization and police escalation actually made their job more dangerous?

    Especially when St Louis county and other parts of the country serve EVERY SINGLE felony warrant with a SWAT team.

  2. #12
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Another important question is how much has militarization and police escalation actually made their job more dangerous?

    Especially when St Louis county and other parts of the country serve EVERY SINGLE felony warrant with a SWAT team.
    For example:

    SWAT Team Responds To College Staff Member Carrying Umbrella


  3. #13
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    ^ I have no idea the context of that picture and situation... but immediately what comes to mind is why the fuck anyone on a SWAT team is wearing civilian shorts like it's no biggie. No one would be allowed to show up to a regular police profession in civilian clothes. Even swat teams called out last minute have to suit up appropriately. Don't know much else outside of that, but that alone makes the picture scream fishy.

    As far as the OP.. Flat out, being a police officer is a dangerous job. And if anyone disagrees with that, I'm pretty much just going to shut you down and ignore you. Not ALL police work is dangerous.. just any other job, there are plenty of niches that are fine and dandy and there isn't a fear of not going home that day and all that. But to discredit the dangers of the job based on that idea is a disservice. Every job has potentials for horrible tragedies and such.. but.. when your job, in essence, is to respond to things people cannot normally handle on their own? It's a rank up. And it's a lot of bullshit.. and it's the potential for a lot of danger. Not all the time.. but enough to definitely be labeled a dangerous job.

    As far as whether militarizing the police force has improved the conditions of work or not.. is a completely different topic.. and has its own coin entirely. But police work is potentially dangerous work. No doubt about that.
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  4. #14
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rail Tracer View Post
    Actually, their paycheck is above average, from what I remember most get a stable income on top of healthcare. The police force, at least in parts of California, is unionized.
    It varies by region. California is somewhat of an anomaly. Cops in say, Oklahoma, make significantly less on average. But in Oklahoma the cost of living is also much lower. So YMMV.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    ^ I have no idea the context of that picture and situation... but immediately what comes to mind is why the fuck anyone on a SWAT team is wearing civilian shorts like it's no biggie. No one would be allowed to show up to a regular police profession in civilian clothes. Even swat teams called out last minute have to suit up appropriately. Don't know much else outside of that, but that alone makes the picture scream fishy.

    As far as the OP.. Flat out, being a police officer is a dangerous job. And if anyone disagrees with that, I'm pretty much just going to shut you down and ignore you. Not ALL police work is dangerous.. just any other job, there are plenty of niches that are fine and dandy and there isn't a fear of not going home that day and all that. But to discredit the dangers of the job based on that idea is a disservice. Every job has potentials for horrible tragedies and such.. but.. when your job, in essence, is to respond to things people cannot normally handle on their own? It's a rank up. And it's a lot of bullshit.. and it's the potential for a lot of danger. Not all the time.. but enough to definitely be labeled a dangerous job.

    As far as whether militarizing the police force has improved the conditions of work or not.. is a completely different topic.. and has its own coin entirely. But police work is potentially dangerous work. No doubt about that.
    A former member of the military is going to "shut me down"? I don't find that response surprising at all. That's how authoritarians think. No discussions. No negotiations. Do what I say or else.

    I didn't say the job is not dangerous, I said it's not the most dangerous. I said that police officers overstate the danger of the job. But somehow even suggesting that police work isn't as dangerous as police officers make it out to be (backed up by statistics) is so offensive that I need to be "shut down".
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #16
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    SWAT teams are the solution to everything.

    There are no comprehensive statistics on how many SWAT raids there actually are in the US (good statistics on police abuse and brutality are conspicuously absent), but it is estimated that there are between 50,000 and 80,000 SWAT raids each year. The vast majority of those raids are to serve warrants to non-violent people. I understand and support using a SWAT team when confronting someone like Christopher Dorner, but simply serving warrants to people with no history of violence? That results in many Americans being harmed. Unfortunately, we don't really know how many Americans have been harmed during these SWAT raids because the government deliberately does not keep statistics on it. We only have the thousands of news stories on the events (for now, the police will make it illegal for the media to cover SWAT team raids if they can), stories like this:

    Toddler critically burned during SWAT raid | www.wsbtv.com





    This is the type of thing that happens when the police use unnecessary force. They throw a flash grenade into a child's crib and burn his face off. Then they lie to the mother about what happened and don't even let her see her child. That is so fucked up, it sounds like something from a movie, but it actually happened in the US. But I guess that's what the child deserves for having been born into a family whose house burned down, then moved in with a relative who allegedly sold $50 of meth to an undercover cop (he's basically Walter White). They're all criminals who deserve whatever happens to them. The city has also refused to pay the child's medical bills because this was all obviously the family's fault.

    County officials refuse to pay medical bills for toddler burned by SWAT grenade
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    As far as the OP.. Flat out, being a police officer is a dangerous job. And if anyone disagrees with that, I'm pretty much just going to shut you down and ignore you. Not ALL police work is dangerous.. just any other job, there are plenty of niches that are fine and dandy and there isn't a fear of not going home that day and all that. But to discredit the dangers of the job based on that idea is a disservice.
    This.

    The attitude cops give off is reflective of how dangerous the job is. Many cops take it too far, and I've been pulled over by a couple of those, but by and large cops do a largely thankless job, with little appreciation from the public they protect. They see shit day in a day out that would make your hair curl.

    I think within the realistic constraints of the dangerous job they do, they should try and be as courteous as possible. As the same time its complete bullshit to expect them to approach civilians with anything but caution and suspicion because they don't know whether your hand in your pocket is wrapped around your keys, or a glock 19.

    So yea they need to not go all Rodney King on people, but you should also be waaaaaaaaayyyyy more appreciative of the tough position their job puts them in, how dangerous that is, and how little you understand of it.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Thankless? You gotta be kidding. How many professions have a memorial and a day set aside to observe their deaths?

    Peace Officers Memorial Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Googling "police work is a thankless job" gives 350,000 hits with articles written by people boohooing about how "thankless" police work is. The police have millions of staunch defenders in this country. Even mentioning that police work is not as dangerous as some people make it out to be gets responded to with threats of being "shut down". This idea that police work is thankless is obnoxious.

    All that aside, why does that even matter? Why does anyone need to be thanked simply for doing a job they chose to do? No one is forced to become a police officer. There are many more dangerous professions. Where are the gas station attendant and taxi cab driver memorials? I don't see them whining about how their work is thankless.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Thankless? You gotta be kidding. How many professions have a memorial and a day set aside to observe their deaths?

    Peace Officers Memorial Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Googling "police work is a thankless job" gives 350,000 hits with articles written by people boohooing about how "thankless" police work is. The police have millions of staunch defenders in this country. Even mentioning that police work is not as dangerous as some people make it out to be gets responded to with threats of being "shut down". This idea that police work is thankless is obnoxious.

    All that aside, why does that even matter? Why does anyone need to be thanked simply for doing a job they chose to do? No one is forced to become a police officer. There are many more dangerous professions. Where are the gas station attendant and taxi cab driver memorials? I don't see them whining about how their work is thankless.
    Thanks for proving my point...

    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    but you should also be waaaaaaaaayyyyy more appreciative of the tough position their job puts them in, how dangerous that is, and how little you understand of it.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Thanks for proving my point...
    Nonsense. I understand it. I just don't think the fact that it's (occasionally) dangerous means that the police should treat everyone like they are Osama bin Laden. They are transferring the risk of their work onto innocent people. Police officers have made a conscious choice to assume that risk. It is immoral for them to transfer that risk to others.

    A few years ago, I loaned one of my brothers some money. He had paid me back in the past, so I figured he would pay me back this time. Unfortunately, he hasn't. Why? His explanation is that he loaned our (financially irresponsible, ie. higher risk) sister some money and he would pay me back when she paid him back. I find that to be immoral because he is transferring the risk of loaning money to our sister to me without my consent. I loaned money to him, not to her. Similarly, I can't tell a credit card company that I'll pay them back when my brother pays me back because they loaned that money to me, not my brother.

    Also similarly, police officers should not be able to transfer the risk of their work onto citizens. Yes, it's possible they could get shot executing a warrant. That's a risk they have chosen to assume when they put on the badge. Using SWAT teams to serve warrants for non-violent offenses because they are afraid someone might shoot them is transferring the risk of their work onto the (innocent until proven guilty) people, many of them innocent bystanders, they are raiding. It leads to all sorts of horrible consequences for American citizens, like toddlers having their faces burnt off by gung-ho police officers. I'm not going to thank police for transferring the risk of their work onto us.

    If you disagree with this analysis, Disco, you are far from being libertarian.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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