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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    The media coverage demonizing the police in these recent events is appalling. In this instance, the perpetrator took it upon himself to approach the cops in a threatening manner with a knife. Keep in mind, the police couldn't even be certain that was the only weapon he had on his person at the time. At no point did he comply with their commands. Put yourself in the officer's shoes. It takes a split second for someone to lunge forward at that distance and inflict lethal harm with a knife, and he's displaying irrational, suicidal behavior in addition to being aggressive. He probably just wanted to be a "martyr for the cause."
    The victim was clearly mentally disturbed. If the victim wanted to die, the police are guilty of assisted suicide (like Dr. Kevorikian). That is a class B felony in the state of Missouri.

    If you watched the video, you know that the police opened fire on the victim within 15 seconds of getting out of their vehicle. That's not enough time to even assess the situation, much less make a proper decision. If they had not gone in with guns blazing, they would have realized that the victim wasn't threatening anyone. They had plenty of time to figure out how to use a non-lethal method to subdue him. But that's not the course of action those police officers chose. They chose to shoot first, ask questions later. That is not what the police are supposed to do in the United States of America. They don't exist to dole out street justice. They exist to apprehend people so they can face a judge and a jury of their peers. Every time the police kill someone, they have failed to do their jobs properly. The police failed. At the very least, the officers should be fired, losing all benefits.

    I have no pity for these assholes. Michael Brown was a bully who had no respect for other people, leisurely stole property and pushed around a store clerk who was actually working for a living instead of being a thug. The protestors immediately determined the officer was guilty of wrongdoing without having all of the facts. They assassinated his character based on the fact that he was a white cop and the dead "victim" was black, then had the audacity to call it character assassination when footage was released showing Michael Brown's true character as he shoplifted and pushed a clerk around moments earlier. And this kid is being called a gentle giant. How can they even say that with a straight face? How 'bout gathering all the facts before rioting on nothing more than racial motivations. If the officer did sustain a swollen face in an altercation, maybe Michael Brown wasn't as compliant as his friends are claiming. What we know about Darren Wilson is that he's been on the police force for six years and has no disciplinary actions on his record. What we know about Michael Brown is that he was a hostile delinquent who had no regard for the law or other people. Put race aside and look at the facts.
    You might be interested to know that Brown's autopsy found no evidence of a struggle (no bruising, scratches, etc). Brown allegedly hit Darren Wilson so hard that he broke the officer's face. Dealing that amount of force would cause anyone to bruise. So why were no bruises found? The simplest explanation is that Brown did not cause that injury to the officer (Brown did not have any sort of weapon). If Brown did not cause that injury, who did? Was Darren Wilson's face broken before the encounter with Brown? Did Darren Wilson inflict it himself? Did another police officer inflict it?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The victim was clearly mentally disturbed. If the victim wanted to die, the police are guilty of assisted suicide (like Dr. Kevorikian). That is a class B felony in the state of Missouri.
    The perpetrator's mental state is irrelevant. He approached the officers in a threatening manner with a weapon and put their lives in danger, particularly the one nearest to him. That's the bottom line.

    If you watched the video, you know that the police opened fire on the victim within 15 seconds of getting out of their vehicle. That's not enough time to even assess the situation, much less make a proper decision. If they had not gone in with guns blazing, they would have realized that the victim wasn't threatening anyone. They had plenty of time to figure out how to use a non-lethal method to subdue him. But that's not the course of action those police officers chose. They chose to shoot first, ask questions later. That is not what the police are supposed to do in the United States of America. They don't exist to dole out street justice. They exist to apprehend people so they can face a judge and a jury of their peers. Every time the police kill someone, they have failed to do their jobs properly. The police failed. At the very least, the officers should be fired, losing all benefits.
    They opened fire within 15 seconds of exiting their vehicle because the perpetrator immediately confronted them instead of complying. Your conclusion about them not taking enough time to assess the situation and make a proper decision is asinine. He approached the officers in a matter of seconds with a weapon, endangering their lives and his own. How is someone walking toward you aggressively wielding a knife not threatening? Their use of deadly force wasn't about doling out justice on a shoplifter; they were protecting themselves from an erratic person who put their lives in danger. Believe it or not, these officers are people who have families too. They don't want to risk losing their lives because some lunatic with a knife is refusing to cooperate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You might be interested to know that Brown's autopsy found no evidence of a struggle (no bruising, scratches, etc). Brown allegedly hit Darren Wilson so hard that he broke the officer's face. Dealing that amount of force would cause anyone to bruise. So why were no bruises found? The simplest explanation is that Brown did not cause that injury to the officer (Brown did not have any sort of weapon). If Brown did not cause that injury, who did? Was Darren Wilson's face broken before the encounter with Brown? Did Darren Wilson inflict it himself? Did another police officer inflict it?
    That was an unsubstantiated claim. Officer Wilson reportedly went to the hospital with a swollen face, not a fractured face. The results of the federal autopsy haven't been released yet and the investigation is still ongoing, but they have no reason to defend Darren Wilson if he is guilty of wrongdoing.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    The perpetrator's mental state has nothing to do with it. He approached the officers in a threatening manner with a weapon and put their lives in danger, particularly the one nearest to him. That's the bottom line.

    They opened fire within 15 seconds of exiting their vehicle because the perpetrator immediately confronted them instead of complying. Your conclusion about them not taking enough time to assess the situation and make a proper decision is asinine. He approached the officers in a matter of seconds with a weapon, endangering their lives and his own. How is someone walking toward you aggressively wielding a knife not threatening? Their use of deadly force wasn't about doling out justice on a shoplifter; they were protecting themselves from an erratic person who put their lives in danger. Believe it or not, these officers are people who have families too. They don't want to risk losing their lives because some lunatic with a knife is refusing to cooperate.
    Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. The victim had been harmlessly pacing around the area for several minutes before the police arrived. It wasn't until the police arrived, screaming while pointing guns at the victim, that tensions increased. The police are 100% responsible for the escalation of that situation. 100%. The police murdered that man for no reason other than they wanted to make sure everyone knew they were in charge.

    There are a million different things the police could have done, like not drive their SUV practically on top of the man. They could have, rather than immediately pulling their weapons, tried to talk to the man. They could have used tasers. They could have used a club. They could have used pepper spray. The man had a knife, not a machine gun, not a massive sword. He had a knife. If the police can't handle a man with a knife without shooting him dead, they fucking suck at their jobs and should be fired, at the very least.

    Lots of people were in the vicinity of the victim for at least several minutes before the police got there. None of them appeared to fear for their lives. None of them were wielding weapons for protection. Those police officers, by comparison, are fucking cowards. They didn't even consider a non-violent approach. They aren't men, they are fucking cowards.


    That was an unsubstantiated claim. Officer Wilson reportedly went to the hospital with a swollen face, not a fractured face. The results of the federal autopsy haven't been released yet and the investigation is still ongoing, but they have no reason to defend Darren Wilson if he is guilty of wrongdoing.
    An unsubstantiated claim by Ferguson's chief of police? All of a sudden statements by the police are "unsubstantiated claims"? Regardless of whether or not the Ferguson chief lied, if there was a struggle between the two, there will evidence of it. If there is no evidence of a struggle, then it didn't happen.

    Dr. Baden didn't have a reason to defend Darren Wilson or Michael Brown, and he's the one who said there was no evidence of a struggle.

    Don't bother responding because there is no point. You are an authoritarian. I am not. We will never agree on this issue. Ever. All we will do is talk past each other because in your mind all police actions are justified if they are afraid.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Bullshit. Bull fucking shit. The victim had been harmlessly pacing around the area for several minutes before the police arrived. It wasn't until the police arrived, screaming while pointing guns at the victim, that tensions increased. The police are 100% responsible for the escalation of that situation. 100%. The police murdered that man for no reason other than they wanted to make sure everyone knew they were in charge.

    There are million different things the police could have done, like not drive their SUV practically on top of the man. They could have, rather than immediately pulling their weapons, tried to talk to the man. They could have used tasers. They could have used a club. They could have used pepper spray. The man had a knife, not a machine gun, not a massive sword. He had a knife. If the police can't handle a man with a knife without shooting him dead, they fucking suck at their jobs and should be fired, at the very least.
    Actually, the guy who shoplifted and then confronted the police with a knife is 100% responsible for the escalation of the situation. It's the job of the police to respond when someone robs or burglarizes a scene. Maybe in your ideal world, people can walk around and steal whatever the fuck they want without consequences, but it doesn't work like that in a civilized society. The officers didn't drive their SUV practically on top of the man. Did you even watch the same video or is your perspective so skewed that you invariably side with criminals involving any confrontation with law enforcement? Yeah, I suppose they could have gotten on their knees in supplication and asked the perpetrator if he would be so kind as to lay his knife on the ground. A lot of devastating violence has been committed with this harmless little weapon you're referring to; massacres have been committed with knives. Your inability to comprehend the nuances of a violent or hostile situation is astounding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Don't bother responding because there is no point. You are an authoritarian. I am not. We will never agree on this issue. Ever.
    I'm hardly an authoritarian, but I do support law and order.

  5. #25
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There are a million different things the police could have done, like not drive their SUV practically on top of the man. They could have, rather than immediately pulling their weapons, tried to talk to the man. They could have used tasers. They could have used a club. They could have used pepper spray.
    They obviously should have done the hokey pokey and turned themselves around because that's what it's all about.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  6. #26
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Actually, the guy who shoplifted and then confronted the police with a knife is 100% responsible for the escalation of the situation.
    That is factually incorrect. The tension level was steady until the police arrived. The behavior of the police is what escalated the tension level.

    It's the job of the police to respond when someone robs or burglarizes a scene.
    It's the job of the police to apprehend and investigate. The police are not executioners.

    Maybe in your ideal world, people can walk around and steal whatever the fuck they want without consequences, but it doesn't work like that in a civilized society.
    What a fantastic leap in logic. Because I think the police should not have executed this man, that also means I think people should be able walk around and steal whatever they want? Explain how you reached that conclusion.

    The officers didn't drive their SUV practically on top of the man. Did you even watch the same video or is your perspective so skewed that you invariably side with criminals involving any confrontation with law enforcement?
    When the police exited their vehicle, they were within 15 feet of the man. Rather than parking farther away and surveying the situation first, they instantly entered conflict mode and treated the man like a video game enemy that needed to be dispatched.

    Yeah, I suppose they could have gotten on their knees in supplication and asked the perpetrator if he would be so kind as to lay his knife on the ground. A lot of devastating violence has been committed with this harmless little weapon you're referring to; massacres have been committed with knives. Your inability to comprehend the nuances of a violent or hostile situation is astounding.
    Hyperbolic nonsense. When was the last knife massacre in the United States and how many police officers were killed during it?

    I'm hardly an authoritarian, but I do support law and order.
    The police violated this man's right to due process, but you couldn't care less. In your mind, authority comes first. You support the law when it's convenient. You don't support law and order, you support order (authority).
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  7. #27
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    They obviously should have done the hokey pokey and turned themselves around because that's what it's all about.
    I think tasers would have been a better choice, but if you think the hokey pokey would have been better, you are free to have that opinion.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    That is factually incorrect. The tension level was steady until the police arrived. The behavior of the police is what escalated the tension level.
    Uhh...yeah, there was no tension before the police arrived because there was no one to apprehend or hold the perp accountable for his actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    It's the job of the police to apprehend and investigate. The police are not executioners.
    And how are the police supposed to apprehend a suspect who is aggressively approaching them with a knife? Your rationale is absurd. They weren't acting as executioners. It was self-defense from a criminal who was posing a legitimate threat to their safety.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    When the police exited their vehicle, they were within 15 feet of the man. Rather than parking farther away and surveying the situation first, they instantly entered conflict mode and treated the man like a video game enemy that needed to be dispatched.
    Yeah, I guess you're right. At no point, did the suspect take it upon himself to brandish a weapon and approach the officers in a threatening manner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Hyperbolic nonsense. When was the last knife massacre in the United States and how many police officers were killed during it?
    Your lack of comprehension has failed you again. The point is not when the last knife massacre occurred in the US or how many police officers were killed. I know this is going to be a really hard concept for you to grasp so bear with me. A knife is a knife. It doesn't matter what country the knife resides in. The fact is, knives are deadly weapons which can cause devastating damage to an individual person and in some instances, crowds of people. When a police officer sees a suspect wielding a knife, do you really think his rational mind is going to try to calculate statistics of how many people have died from knife attacks, what country they lived in and what their professions were? It's irrelevant and your logic is flawed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The police violated this man's right to due process, but you couldn't care less. In your mind, authority comes first. You support the law when it's convenient. You don't support law and order, you support order (authority).
    The police didn't violate his rights. If someone is posing a threat to your life, you have a right to defend yourself whether you're a police officer or a civilian. You're excusing the suspect's actions on the basis that he was mentally ill and villainizing the officers because you have a disdain for law enforcement.

  9. #29
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    At no point, did the suspect take it upon himself to brandish a weapon and approach the officers in a threatening manner.
    The cops themselves felt the need to augment what actually happened and lied about the man raising the knife up over his head.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    The cops themselves felt the need to augment what actually happened and lied about the man raising the knife up over his head.
    The video speaks for itself. What would you have done if you were the officer standing closest to him?

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