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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, if the police were not acting on racism, they are still in the wrong, they still used unnecessary force, for whatever reason. And as far as I can tell, accusations of racism aside, the criticism of the police and the suggestions it has brought about seem to me to be just as relevant to protecting white people from police brutality as black people. Training police to diffuse conflict, re-considering how police are armed, placing more legal accountability on police for the damages they do, all these things would hypothetically make every race of people safer.
    As far as I can tell, law-abiding citizens aren't in danger of police brutality. I do, however, support the notion that police officers should be equipped with video cameras to document their activities. It holds them accountable and eliminates any discrepancies with eyewitness accounts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    I don't care about the media coverage. I believe statistical research continues to affirm that the law is harder on black people at virtually every stage. But even if that's so, and that fact compels someone to implement the aforementioned changes, those changes would still also make white people safer, so I'm not sure what the point of complaining is.
    I'd be interested in reading evidence which proves the criminal justice system is partial against black people and not simply statistics that are compiled and presented in a way to further an agenda, omitting information, and skewing results for political purposes, much the way the media conveniently shined a spotlight on St. Louis and casually overlooked the shooting in Utah.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post

    First and foremost, that people are lazy, which we probably already know. No one really cares about either person, and that's the real truth of the matter, as evidenced by the sensationalism being attributed to the race card. If the motivation was to show police being overly forceful, the white victim would be adding to their point, not diminishing it.. instead, this story was not given much glance.

    People are focusing on the race card only. This means that no matter what that police officer did or did not do, people label him racist and wrong. If the investigation shows he's good, people will be all sorts of frowny-faced about it. It puts a LOT of pressure on investigation teams to *find* something wrong, even if it may not be there or if a different cop not in the limelight would have been given different treatment. People want special treatment.. the things they care about, or pretend to care about, they want more out of it all. No one cares what happens to the black cop in the other article. They just don't. They do care if they expose this guy as being racist, regardless of if he actually is or not.

    To ignore that this cop could potentially have committed a hate crime would be bad.. but the investigation should be the one showing that. There shouldn't be a "white cop shoots black man dead" spin on things before the investigation even has a chance to do its thing. And that heavily influences investigations even if you don't want it to and try to be as objective as possible.
    You raise a good point here. It almost seems counter-intuitive for the media to ignore the police brutality in Utah, but to nobody's surprise who isn't brainwashed by the media, it was deemed less important than the shooting in Ferguson. Indeed, the main goal of the investigation should be to discover the truth, and if the cop is guilty of wrongdoing, hold him accountable; not trying to appease an angry mob for purely political reasons who determined the cop was a racist pig before the investigation even began.

  2. #92
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    As far as I can tell, law-abiding citizens aren't in danger of police brutality. I do, however, support the notion that police officers should be equipped with video cameras to document their activities. It holds them accountable and eliminates any discrepancies with eyewitness accounts.
    There can be doubt that some law abiding citizens have been victims of police brutality, it's only a question of frequency. But it's not like that's the only thing that matters either. I think it's very important to note that citizens who break the law are subject to police brutality. If I were to drive through a red light, I'd be breaking the law. Now, would that justify a police officer to do anything to me? Considering some laws are minor, some laws are ambiguous, and some laws are stupid and should probably be repealed, it is not safe to shrug off police violence against any one who is in some a law breaker.

    I am also in favor of the cameras, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    I'd be interested in reading evidence which proves the criminal justice system is partial against black people and not simply statistics that are compiled and presented in a way to further an agenda, omitting information, and skewing results for political purposes, much the way the media conveniently shined a spotlight on St. Louis and casually overlooked the shooting in Utah.
    Blacks are harassed more by the police. They charged mored with crimes more often. They are convicted crimes more often. They receive harsher sentences for their crimes.

    Why do I not link some data right here? Because it is one of the most abundant and validated areas of social research I can think of, so all you'd have to do is go look it up yourself. And no, it's not like the media, it's academic research.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    You raise a good point here. It almost seems counter-intuitive for the media to ignore the police brutality in Utah, but to nobody's surprise who isn't brainwashed by the media, it was deemed less important than the shooting in Ferguson. Indeed, the main goal of the investigation should be to discover the truth, and if the cop is guilty of wrongdoing, hold him accountable; not trying to appease an angry mob for purely political reasons who determined the cop was a racist pig before the investigation even began.
    I'm still not sure who's actually changing the outcome of the investigation here. Although, on the topic of that, in many of these cases, like the one in Ferguson, part of the anger arises from delays in the investigation, or lack of investigation.
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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    Blacks are harassed more by the police. They charged mored with crimes more often. They are convicted crimes more often. They receive harsher sentences for their crimes.

    Why do I not link some data right here? Because it is one of the most abundant and validated areas of social research I can think of, so all you'd have to do is go look it up yourself. And no, it's not like the media, it's academic research.
    I haven't done any research on the subject, but I tend to read studies in general with a degree of skepticism; for every study claiming their results indicate some truth, there is another study claiming the exact opposite. But based on the assertions you mentioned, I would ask the following questions:

    What defines harassment? If a police officer is looking at a person suspiciously, does that qualify as harassment? What if they are asking questions about a person's activities? I've been pulled over at night by an officer who claimed that I looked suspicious. He then proceeded to pat me down and search my vehicle. Do I think I was racially profiled? No. And if I were interviewed by some academic study asking if I've ever been harassed by police, I would answer no. But if I were black, I would most likely chalk it up to racism. I've probably paid more money in non-DUI/DWI traffic-related offenses than anybody in this forum. I'm just postulating. I've had an officer literally yell in my face like a drill instructor, telling me that I'm driving like a "fucking idiot." I've also been pulled over allegedly for speeding and then given a citation for not wearing my seat belt (which I was wearing) just so the officer could meet his quota. There are cops who are power-hungry assholes. I'm not debating that. I'm sure there are some who are racist, as well. But they're not all that way. I think it's a stressful job that most people wouldn't be able to handle. It's easy for people who have no concept of what it's like to deal with the confrontations police deal with regularly to sit back and critique them on how they would've handled situations more effectively.

    Furthermore, how many of the blacks in these studies are actually being harassed for reasons other than skin color, such as the clothes they are wearing (possible gang related attire) or suspicious behavior? As human beings, we are hardwired to look for patterns. It might not be politically correct, but if someone is dressed like a thug, don't be surprised if they get treated like a thug.

    As far as blacks being charged with more crimes, is this in a particular locality where blacks are over-represented, or in the general population? Are blacks committing crimes more frequently than whites? Are these studies specifically comparing black first-time offenders to white first-time offenders and so on, or are they even taking multiple offenses into consideration when comparing sentences between whites/blacks? Crime rates tend to be higher in lower socioeconomic levels which are often more populated with black people. How many of the blacks who are incarcerated are involved in gang-related activity? Is the study suggesting that whites are being shown leniency, whereas, blacks aren't? What do these numbers actually indicate when you break it down to these little nuances?

  4. #94
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    Do you assume the black officer in this situation, whom you know nothing about, was also committing a racially motivated hate crime? Or do you give him the benefit of the doubt because he's black and the victim is white?
    I notice race in context. If the area's known for interracial violence (as Ferguson seems to be), I would worry that there's a bias towards certain races regardless of what race carried out the crime. If it happened in an area that had no racial offences, I wouldn't stress about race.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'd probably think the US is just full of slavery-loving-bigots too.
    Wait, what? At no point did I say anything racist against America. I shouldn't have to explain myself but I don't see the US that way. I have been to the US and I do have relatives in Tennessee so you could say that I have first hand accounts.

    Anyway, with that, I'm done. I'll be watching from the sidelines but won't be contributing anymore.
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  5. #95
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    At no point did I say anything racist against America. I shouldn't have to explain myself but I don't see the US that way. I have been to the US and I do have relatives in Tennessee so you could say that I have first hand accounts.

    Anyway, with that, I'm done. I'll be watching from the sidelines but won't be contributing anymore.
    That wasn't a jab at you.. rather a tongue in cheek remark about foreigners looking in.. Just like Americans tend to think Europeans are completely liberal, which really isn't the case in reality, it is easy to think of America as full of bigots. At least, I would find it so if I were foreign.
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  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deceptive View Post
    I notice race in context. If the area's known for interracial violence (as Ferguson seems to be), I would worry that there's a bias towards certain races regardless of what race carried out the crime. If it happened in an area that had no racial offences, I wouldn't stress about race.
    Of course the residents of Ferguson view it as a racial issue. That's no surprise. It's a sentiment that is expressed in nearly every neighborhood that has a high crime rate, hence the stigma against "snitches" who inform law-enforcement of criminal activity. It's an US vs THEM mentality. Criminals are held in higher regard than anyone wearing a badge, whom are often demonized and branded as racist pigs.

    From the Wikipedia article you linked to earlier:

    According to The Washington Post, the incident sparked unrest in Ferguson largely due to questions of racism as a factor in the shooting. Protests, vandalism, and other forms of social unrest continued for more than a week, with night curfew being imposed and escalated violence. Several of the stores looted during the unrest are Asian American owned, with The Daily Beast writing that Asian Americans tend to be "left out" of the race relations discussion.
    It's interesting how the crowd immediately accused the officer of being a racist while much of the criminal activity which ensued targeted establishments owned by Asian Americans, but the race card was never thrown at these violent protesters.

  7. #97
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    It's interesting how the crowd immediately accused the officer of being a racist while much of the criminal activity which ensued targeted establishments owned by Asian Americans, but the race card was never thrown at these violent protesters.
    Srsly? Lol.

    Correlation/causation

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Srsly? Lol.

    Correlation/causation
    Srsly

    I have no doubt they would have looted the establishments regardless of the ownership. I'm talking about how easily the race card gets thrown when it's directed at white police officers. Could you imagine if white protesters had looted black establishments in Utah when Dillon Taylor was shot? The Rev. Jesse Jackson would've showed up with an entourage and a speech. Even black cops get ridiculed for joining forces with the great white opposition. God forbid, a brother from the hood should want to be anything other than a thug.

    Isn't this the gangsta mantra?

    Fuck Tha Police

    The song also alleged that blacks in the police were worse than the whites, with lyrics such as:

    But don't let it be a black and a white one
    'Cause they'll slam ya down to the street top
    Black police showing out for the white cop

    —Ice Cube

  9. #99
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Congratulations, you have successfully turned this into a pointless debate about race.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Congratulations, you have successfully turned this into a pointless debate about race.
    I'm not surprised that's all you got out of this. Obviously, racist assumptions were made from the very beginning, involving the shootings in Ferguson and St. Louis, hence the rioting in the streets for days.

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