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  1. #31
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    He's the only potential Republican candidate I would consider voting for (especially if it's him against Hillary). It's too bad he has about a 1 in a million chance of winning the nomination.
    Too bad he will completely trash the economy, wreck the markey making even more straified and unregulated, and mess up civil rights. Let's not forget it would give the current house more control that to NOT need.
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  2. #32
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    All I keep hearing is "Anger! Rage! Fear!" and to be honest I am tired of it. Both sides are at fault for having this spiral out of control. I do not feel like we are getting the full story because both sides are so emotionally charged/misinformed that I don't trust all of it.
    Both sides? The police should be trying to deescalate situations. Instead, they escalate by using military tactics on a civilian population. All that does is increase tension, violence, etc. We pay the police to be better than this. They're supposed to be professionals. If they can't be better than this, they shouldn't get paid. They can fill out applications at Wal-Mart.

    While I do agree the "militerization" of local police department is not beneficial, and many have internal corruption, it is not this doomsday scenario that people think it will play out to be. There are A LOT of people that seem to just be anti-authority to the point of it actually becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy where they insight problems on themselves. I honestly roll my eyes at a lot of it. No, the police are not going to start creating martial law, or using excessive force everywhere we go. Why? Because if it does happen it will be stopped. It just needs to happen at the right place at the right time. Sadly, this took off as it did because of likely racism and power-trips, but it is isolated. The good that will come out of this is awareness, but the bad is insighting too much anger in the wrong people.
    Ferguson is effectively under martial law, right now. They've arrested and shot tear gas at journalists. I expect that behavior out of the police in places like Iran and China, not the US.

    This level of outburst by the police is fortunately rare, but police using military tactics is not rare at all. They do it all the time when serving narcotics warrants. They burst into people's homes in the middle of the night, brandishing all sorts of military weaponry, regardless of whether or not they have children. They've killed so many dogs (family pets, not pit bulls) in these raids over the years, there is some serious backlash coming. Why? White people tend to not care all that much when black people are victimized, but killing dogs? That's going too far. It might sound like I'm kidding, but I'm not. White people are starting to care more and more about this because the police have killed so many family pets.

    As for now, I am going to continue living my life. Like the LA riots, this will be over soon enough and people will learn something from it. I wish it wasn't plastered everywhere though.
    There was a 25 year old black, mentally-handicapped man shot in the back and killed in LA a couple days ago. There are no riots. 99.99% of the time the cops kill a young black man, there are no riots.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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  4. #34
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    You made a great argument for giving the police armed drones and tactical nuclear weapons.

    I have a different view of policing. It's not about who has the biggest guns. Leave that pissing contest to the military.
    I didnt give an argument for that. I think you assumed bit too much based on what i said. I dont think police should be heavily armed, but i think that its a good idea to have tactical forces in case someone starts to play with big guns. I dont think that its a good idea to let people buy big guns in the first place to make it harder for criminals to obtain them, however because usa has so fucked up politics and people in charge its kinda a necessity to have big guns in case you need protection against your own government.. Which ofc gives a great excuse to be excessive in policing in all sorts of ways. Im pretty sure that policing in usa will get seriously fucked up in some time if there isnt some radical change in politics. Maybe you should leave the country while you still can?
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  5. #35
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I really like how they wear tan boots and camo clothing. That really suits the urban American environment. But then, 90% of the shit they have on is more about playing soldier than actually being effective. That's what happens when you advertise your agencies to potential applicants by showing all of the door kicking and shooting and whatnot. Too many people that want to be soldiers become cops instead thinking that it's a similar thing (and unfortunately it is to some extent here).
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  6. #36
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Too many people that want to be soldiers become cops instead thinking that it's a similar thing (and unfortunately it is to some extent here).
    I guess you are not aware that a lot of cops are veterans. Quite a few of the younger people on the department in my city were in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some of the more senior personnel served during the Cold War and Desert Storm.
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  7. #37
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I guess you are not aware that a lot of cops are veterans. Quite a few of the younger people on the department in my city were in Iraq and Afghanistan, and some of the more senior personnel served during the Cold War and Desert Storm.
    No, I'm quite aware of that. The same thing still applies. If you want to be a soldier, be a soldier. If you want to be a cop, be a cop.

    Most of the soldiers that I know that want to be cops either want to do it for soldiery reasons like the power and violence or they're the guys that suck and get treated like shit so they're probably looking for some authority. That's just my personal experience, though, and obviously there are some out there that genuinely want to be cops and will hopefully be good at it.

    I think a lot of people, including soldiers, view being a cop as just being a local soldier. That's what brings the us vs. them mentality to police forces (among other things like the militarization of police and the war on drugs, etc.).
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

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  8. #38
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    No, I'm quite aware of that. The same thing still applies. If you want to be a soldier, be a soldier. If you want to be a cop, be a cop.

    Most of the soldiers that I know that want to be cops either want to do it for soldiery reasons like the power and violence or they're the guys that suck and get treated like shit so they're probably looking for some authority. That's just my personal experience, though, and obviously there are some out there that genuinely want to be cops and will hopefully be good at it.

    I think a lot of people, including soldiers, view being a cop as just being a local soldier. That's what brings the us vs. them mentality to police forces (among other things like the militarization of police and the war on drugs, etc.).
    The people I notice who don't like police and even hate police are petty criminals.

    This is understandable as the police interrupt petty criminals.

    So I think a fair question to ask is, do you have a dog in this fight, indeed do you engage in petty crime such as buying or selling illegal drugs?

    If so, it would be useful to disclose your motivation in speaking against lawful authority.

  9. #39
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Both sides? The police should be trying to deescalate situations. Instead, they escalate by using military tactics on a civilian population. All that does is increase tension, violence, etc. We pay the police to be better than this. They're supposed to be professionals. If they can't be better than this, they shouldn't get paid. They can fill out applications at Wal-Mart.
    Correct. The problem is the protesters an then later rioters, are largely attempting to fight back from what I can tell, which makes the cops fight harder, which makes the public fight more, rinse wash repeat. I also totally agree if they are found to be out of line (which seems really self evident, but I am only 95% convinced), then yep, they need the boot. I can't think of many that would object to that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Ferguson is effectively under martial law, right now. They've arrested and shot tear gas at journalists. I expect that behavior out of the police in places like Iran and China, not the US.

    This level of outburst by the police is fortunately rare, but police using military tactics is not rare at all. They do it all the time when serving narcotics warrants. They burst into people's homes in the middle of the night, brandishing all sorts of military weaponry, regardless of whether or not they have children. They've killed so many dogs (family pets, not pit bulls) in these raids over the years, there is some serious backlash coming. Why? White people tend to not care all that much when black people are victimized, but killing dogs? That's going too far. It might sound like I'm kidding, but I'm not. White people are starting to care more and more about this because the police have killed so many family pets.
    Ah, ok I will give you that that it's "effectively" martial. I was speaking in terms of literal and explicit (which people get much more up in arms over and panic about being possible). Using military style tactics is really unwarranted in pretty much every scenario, and it's bad that it's being used. If I am to speculate, I bet the surge of it is fueled by boredom mostly. Why do it? Cause we can! That will entertain us, to hell with conseqeunces. I am aware that it's increasing over time thanks to ye olde drug laws. It's essentially something to do, something easy to call out on very little substantating evidence, and hard to prove a wrong doing for the fact that it's "in the name of getting drugs off the streets". If we'd just decriminalize and subsequently regulate as needed this would help slows the police force's bravado. I'm not entirely sure it would work as intended like it has in Portugal due to differing culture here, but I am fairly certain it would be an improvement. To be honest, I am having a hard time caring because unless I know the person, I tend to have little empathy beyond "oh, that's sad. Moving on now". I also incidentally dislike dogs so my response to that has been equally flat. And I do understand, it actually annoys the crap out of me that people seem to care far more for pets and dogs than they do for fellow humans.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    There was a 25 year old black, mentally-handicapped man shot in the back and killed in LA a couple days ago. There are no riots. 99.99% of the time the cops kill a young black man, there are no riots.
    Er, what I meant was that the result of this event will be much like what happened post the LA riots. The fact that one was triggered or not was not the point I was making.


    I'm also just sore on this sort of issue. Quite a few people I know are just wildly anti-authority. That whole "Fuck the system! ...because it's the system!" mentality pisses me the hell off. There is a time and a place to battle authority, and very few people have the ability to discern when that time and place is. If you go after it wrong, you make things worse. When stuff like this happens, they get loud, irrational, and super angry. Rightfully so, but it belays irrationality as well and it can't be civilly discussed. Essentially, I get upset/mad over the whole situation and how in the shortterm (possibly long term for now) it's intractable, mixed with people you can't really talk easily with, I get to a point of "...Fuck it! *stuff head in sand*" come get me when you all cool your jets.
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  10. #40
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    As I understand it, Ferguson is a fairly small town. They probably have a small police department with a modest budget. So where did all these SWAT guys come from? St. Louis, maybe?
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