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  1. #11
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    countries are biased towards themselves while writing their history..
    exceptionalism isn't anything new...

    nation states are a blight to humanity..

  2. #12
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    it seems that most americans think that they not only single handedly won WWII, but WWI as well which is even more ludicrous.

  3. #13
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I'll add that the US entry into the European theater wasn't entirely out of a desire to help the USSR. As it became increasingly clear that the USSR was winning against Germany, there was the fear that if the Soviet Union won the European theater single-handedly it would claim all of Europe as spoils of war. As dictators go, Stalin wasn't much of an improvement over Hitler. So there was pressure on the US and Britain to enter the European theater and sweep through a big chunk of Europe if only to keep the western portion out of Russian hands. That way, only the part of Europe roughly east of Berlin ended up behind the Iron Curtain at the end of the war.
    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I was aware of those numbers. Hitler had largely conquered Europe by 1941, so he invaded the USSR at that point. The US didn't set foot on Europe until 1944. So the USSR bore the brunt for three years.

    However, it's wrong to say that the US "basically just appear[ed] after war was nearly over to steal nazi technology". After all, the USSR had been begging for the US and Great Britain to open a second front in Europe for the entire three years. The US had been fighting a fierce war in the Pacific theater for years and could have simply refused to help in Europe; but the US helped out on the Europe front as well, at the end. And opening that second front really did take a lot of pressure off the USSR and helped it considerably. Also, prior to 1944, the US helped the USSR with shipments of arms and supplies to aid their war effort (the Lend-Lease program).

    Also, that brings up another point: You haven't accounted for the Pacific theater of WWII. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941, and the US bore the brunt of that side of the war with exactly zero assistance from the USSR. The Russians finally showed up in the Pacific just in time to make a symbolic appearance just before Japan surrendered. (In accordance with a previous arrangement with the US, the USSR attacked and seized Sakhalin Island from the Japanese just after the bombings at Hiroshima and Nagasaki and a couple days before the official surrender.)
    Yes, all of this. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by silvery sleeves View Post
    it seems that most americans think that they not only single handedly won WWII, but WWI as well which is even more ludicrous.
    I know no one who thinks the US won WWI. In fact, it is rarely discussed in school and the majority of people I know only learned about with any depth, it when they read on their own.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  4. #14
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I know no one who thinks the US won WWI.
    I don't think anybody really won.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

    "I took one those personality tests. It came back negative." - Dan Mintz

  5. #15
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I don't think anybody really won.
    Exactly.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  6. #16
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    Default Literacy and Hyper Tribal Frenzy

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    countries are biased towards themselves while writing their history..
    exceptionalism isn't anything new...

    nation states are a blight to humanity..
    The only thing worse than nation States is tribalism.

    This is interesting as the modern nation State is based on literacy, while tribalism is based on the spoken word.

    So why has literacy given us civilization, while the spoken word has only given us short, nasty, and brutish, tribalism.

    And germaine to this very day, everyone and their dog in what was Iraq and Syria has a mobile phone, which is creating etribalism on top of traditional tribalism, without the antidote of literacy, and so driving them into a hyper tribal frenzy.

    We only have to turn on our television, listen to our radio, or log into the internet, to follow this hyper tribal frenzy day by day.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I know no one who thinks the US won WWI. In fact, it is rarely discussed in school and the majority of people I know only learned about with any depth, it when they read on their own.
    WWI is rarely discussed in schools, ok

  8. #18
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    yah the only reason why we know ww1 happened is cuz of ww2 unless historians just sorta decided to mess with us.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    I don't think anybody really won.
    Germany and Austria certainly won a little less than Britain and France.

  10. #20
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Taught in school? Seriously?

    I've known this stuff for a while, but I can probably be considered atypical. In my experience, Americans seem to have a pervasive but vague idea that the USA came in as game changing heroes in WWII. I think it's worth adding that a lot of Americans don't realize how early WWII started and how long it went on before the USA did anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    I know no one who thinks the US won WWI. In fact, it is rarely discussed in school and the majority of people I know only learned about with any depth, it when they read on their own.
    But my experience is that any American who hasn't learned about WWI with any depth automatically assumes the USA must have won it.
    Go to sleep, iguana.


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