User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 13

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    MBTI
    INFP
    Posts
    617

    Default The economics of legal marijuana

    Here's a fun little article on where to place your money if you want to invest in legal marijuana:

    Legal Marijuana’s Unintended Business Opportunities - Risk & Compliance - WSJ

    The law of unintended consequences looks to be in force in the marijuana industry, where businesses that expect booming demand from marijuana users are among the opponents of legalization, while those who are pioneering the industry may be crushed by the more liberal laws they favor. The picture of risk and opportunity is a swirl of incongruities. [...]

  2. #2
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    I think that its irresponsible to legalize weed and let the business grow wild on its own. What imo should be done is that government buys weed from growers and sells in dispensaries. Then some coffee shops would buy from government licensed growers, there should obviously be some license for commercial growing(similar to brewing beer or something for commercial use). Growing for own use or for friends and own use should be legal.

    The reason why i think its better to be handled the socialist instead of capitalist way is that business wants to make money, money comes from weed, so more weed sold = more money. While i think that weed should be legal, i dont think that its healthy to make people smoke more.

    I didnt read the article, but i watched some quite new documentary about the growing weed industry.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  3. #3
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    MBTI
    ENFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 sp/so
    Socionics
    EIE Fe
    Posts
    7,990

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    I think that its irresponsible to legalize weed and let the business grow wild on its own. What imo should be done is that government buys weed from growers and sells in dispensaries. Then some coffee shops would buy from government licensed growers, there should obviously be some license for commercial growing(similar to brewing beer or something for commercial use). Growing for own use or for friends and own use should be legal.

    The reason why i think its better to be handled the socialist instead of capitalist way is that business wants to make money, money comes from weed, so more weed sold = more money. While i think that weed should be legal, i dont think that its healthy to make people smoke more.

    I didnt read the article, but i watched some quite new documentary about the growing weed industry.
    I agree, this is pretty much how I feel as well. It's likely to backfire as well. After a few decades I wouldn't be surprised if something akin to what happened with ciggerettes happens to marijuana.
    MBTI: ExxJ tetramer
    Functions: Fe > Te > Ni > Se > Si > Ti > Fi > Ne
    Enneagram: 1w2 - 3w4 - 6w5 (The Taskmaster) | sp/so
    Socionics: β-E dimer | -
    Big 5: slOaI
    Temperament: Choleric/Melancholic
    Alignment: Lawful Neutral
    External Perception: Nohari and Johari


  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    intp
    Enneagram
    5w4 sx
    Posts
    7,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    I agree, this is pretty much how I feel as well. It's likely to backfire as well. After a few decades I wouldn't be surprised if something akin to what happened with ciggerettes happens to marijuana.



    @HelenOfTroy
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

    Read

  5. #5
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    I'll take profits going to legitimate businesses over drug cartels every day of the week. I doubt any of the companies in the article will engage in violent turf wars with their competitors that lead to the deaths of thousands of innocent people. Drug cartels have destabilized and corrupted the governments of Central and South America. The negative unintended consequences of drug prohibition are vast and something the mainstream media doesn't talk about or even recognize. But those people aren't American, so I guess they don't matter.

    Every time someone complains about how marijuana legalization has lead to them seeing more potheads around their neighborhood, I roll my eyes. Are people's sensibilities really so delicate that they'd rather have policies that destroy the lives of millions of people than deal with the extreme and overwhelming hardship of seeing a pothead in their neighborhood?

    I'll be glad when stories like this are thing of the past.

    Six Philadelphia cops arrested on corruption charges - CNN.com

    What's sad is, this type of corruption is all over the US. Philadelphia just happens to be one place where they decided to stop these officers (probably because these cops stole from the police department, not because they actually care about the people). It's sickening and too many people turn a blind eye to it. Black markets always lead to corruption. Always!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #6
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    I'm really interested in seeing those crime statistics.. and seeing what the longer-term trends are in legalized states. I definitely would NOT prefer a sharp 96% increase in petty crimes vs the 0% of the time I've encountered drug cartels in my life. What is the use in flushing out drug cartels if the neighborhood I live in is no longer nearly as safe as it used to be because of increased drug dependence? 10% is a pretty high statistic really.. I'm not saying I prefer drug cartels over muggings.. I don't. But drug cartels don't come into my areas that I live and operate in. Muggings do.

    Anyways, what I'm truly interested in is how they judge people under the influence. THC stays in the system for like a month... The signs of influence are pretty subjective sans coming in just freshly smoking a joint and having multiple people smell it on you. Alcohol is easy to predict--you stop people, breathalyze, and administer things accordingly. As far as I know, there is nothing accurate enough like that to use in courts and on people for marijuana. So the guy driving in front of you can be high as shit, fuck up your car, and no one can really arrest him for DUI because the data is just subjective + THC levels are slow to decline in the body.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  7. #7
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    729 sx/sp
    Socionics
    IEE Ne
    Posts
    5,634

    Default

    Without federal law backing the business, it's going to be difficult to integrate the profits and exchanges made into the economic system. Marijuana is still a schedule 1 drug according to federal law, meaning that no banks or insurance companies are allowed to assist or interact with these businesses in any way without becoming involved in a highly illegal drug operation. Without federal support, the money made from these businesses is being handled in a cash-based fashion with very little regulation and oversight. The point we're at now is basically unpunished crime from a federal economic standpoint. This makes the industry subject to both risk and abuse.

    I still think this may be a necessary step toward legalization, but we should be wary of getting stuck in this place for very long. It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds.
    You hem me in -- behind and before;
    you have laid your hand upon me.
    Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
    too lofty for me to attain.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'm really interested in seeing those crime statistics.. and seeing what the longer-term trends are in legalized states. I definitely would NOT prefer a sharp 96% increase in petty crimes vs the 0% of the time I've encountered drug cartels in my life. What is the use in flushing out drug cartels if the neighborhood I live in is no longer nearly as safe as it used to be because of increased drug dependence? 10% is a pretty high statistic really.. I'm not saying I prefer drug cartels over muggings.. I don't. But drug cartels don't come into my areas that I live and operate in. Muggings do.

    Anyways, what I'm truly interested in is how they judge people under the influence. THC stays in the system for like a month... The signs of influence are pretty subjective sans coming in just freshly smoking a joint and having multiple people smell it on you. Alcohol is easy to predict--you stop people, breathalyze, and administer things accordingly. As far as I know, there is nothing accurate enough like that to use in courts and on people for marijuana. So the guy driving in front of you can be high as shit, fuck up your car, and no one can really arrest him for DUI because the data is just subjective + THC levels are slow to decline in the body.
    I'm skeptical of those crime statistics. This is the first story I've read where there was any claim that crime has actually increased. Everything else I've read on the subject has said that crime rates have dropped. But if petty crime rates have increased, I would be surprised if it wasn't a direct result of drug tourism, a problem that would disappear once a critical mass of states legalize marijuana.

    All that aside, your stance is incredibly selfish and callous. You'd rather see thousands die (as long as they don't live in your neighborhood) than deal with a little more petty crime? That is seriously fucked up. That's the worst type of NIMBY.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #9
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,881

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    I'm skeptical of those crime statistics. This is the first story I've read where there was any claim that crime has actually increased. Everything else I've read on the subject has said that crime rates have dropped. But if petty crime rates have increased, I would be surprised if it wasn't a direct result of drug tourism, a problem that would disappear once a critical mass of states legalize marijuana.
    The tourism aspect is exactly what I had in mind, too.. I'm skeptical of people saying anything has nothing but benefits, and a lot of pro-cannabis parties are doing just that.. So to see news of actual bad things happening? It's a sign of balance to me. Nothing is perfect, and there's a huge push to say, "See?! Nothing bad happened at all guys! C'mon! Stop being deluded!" that I feel is really premature and based on speculation and not actual facts. I'd like to see this long term in pro-cannabis states.. See if the drug rate increases AND stays there...

    All that aside, your stance is incredibly selfish and callous. You'd rather see thousands die (as long as they don't live in your neighborhood) than deal with a little more petty crime? That is seriously fucked up. That's the worst type of NIMBY.
    Uhm. Pretty much. I don't know if you noticed, but thousands of people die all of the time from horrible things. I'm sorry you think it's selfish that I don't have tons of feels for everyone in the world. But I don't. I don't like that drug cartels are doing bad things, and I definitely want them stopped.. but I had nothing to do with drugs, wanted nothing to do with drugs, and I certainly don't want the consequences of people who say, "Fuck you, I want them, here they are now, And now you have to deal with all the extra fuck ups mugging your neighborhoods and stealing your shit and making your life miserable all the time too. Because kids in Mexico are dying. But fuck those Cambodian kids starving because the country just sucks." You really can't just throw a bunch of "there are starving kids in Africa" references out there. It really doesn't work. It isn't my fault there are drug cartels, starving kids, dying people, sick people, shitty countries, and assholes in the world. I don't think it's selfish to say, "I don't want this in my backyard." Because I don't. Don't throw a bunch of sentimental bullshit at me when people are going bananas over being able to get high when I've seen entire towns that have family incomes of less than 1 dollar a MONTH. Fuck that shit. It's marijuana not food. You want to make a real difference in the world? Feed people. Give them health care. Donate your time and efforts towards things that make people SURVIVE, not just get high or feel a little better.

    If the rates DID increase, and stay there, I would DEFINITELY not want marijuana legal outside of strict palliative care medicinal purposes--IN PILL FORM. I don't know everything there is to know about everything.. but I feel like you're very idealistic about things and just don't have a sense of reality. If I'm mugged constantly, and getting my shit stolen, and worried about people killing me for drug money, do you think I'm going to be contributing to my local society? It's going to turn places into shit holes instead of places of opportunity. I'd like to see the long term statistics before I decide anything, but if native people of Colorado are moving out and new people are massively moving in--that'd be a very, very ominous sign to me. I don't think it's right to say, "Oh we should subject everyone's lives to all of this because some of the population wants something that isn't even necessary at all because we have a legal form of it for those who are actually sick." That's not the right answer here.

    The whole idea of all of this is that it was suppose to be sooooo great with nearly No repercussions. And I'm saying that's bullshit, and I think there are plenty, and I think there needs to be more objective analyses on what's already been instilled in the current states before we start legalizing it further and seeing changes we can't undo.

    The reality is your idea of ALL drugs being legal is NOT going to happen. Ever. That's just how it is. I'm sorry if you dislike that. But Drug Cartels will NOT go away with the legalization of marijuana. They'll have to get more competitive about the drugs that ARE out there.. and that means more shitty cut-throat behavior all over the place. So I'm not overly concerned about drug cartels.. because even with legalization, people still will do things illegally and they'll still be around. I promise you that.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The tourism aspect is exactly what I had in mind, too.. I'm skeptical of people saying anything has nothing but benefits, and a lot of pro-cannabis parties are doing just that.. So to see news of actual bad things happening? It's a sign of balance to me. Nothing is perfect, and there's a huge push to say, "See?! Nothing bad happened at all guys! C'mon! Stop being deluded!" that I feel is really premature and based on speculation and not actual facts. I'd like to see this long term in pro-cannabis states.. See if the drug rate increases AND stays there...
    The people who act like there are no bad aspects to pot annoy me. Those people are a big reason it's taking so long for this to happen, because they detract from the legitimacy of the movement to eliminate prohibition. But I'm not going to let the opinions of idiots change my viewpoint. There are idiots on both sides of every issue.

    Uhm. Pretty much. I don't know if you noticed, but thousands of people die all of the time from horrible things. I'm sorry you think it's selfish that I don't have tons of feels for everyone in the world. But I don't. I don't like that drug cartels are doing bad things, and I definitely want them stopped.. but I had nothing to do with drugs, wanted nothing to do with drugs, and I certainly don't want the consequences of people who say, "Fuck you, I want them, here they are now, And now you have to deal with all the extra fuck ups mugging your neighborhoods and stealing your shit and making your life miserable all the time too. Because kids in Mexico are dying. But fuck those Cambodian kids starving because the country just sucks." You really can't just throw a bunch of "there are starving kids in Africa" references out there. It really doesn't work. It isn't my fault there are drug cartels, starving kids, dying people, sick people, shitty countries, and assholes in the world. I don't think it's selfish to say, "I don't want this in my backyard." Because I don't. Don't throw a bunch of sentimental bullshit at me when people are going bananas over being able to get high when I've seen entire towns that have family incomes of less than 1 dollar a MONTH. Fuck that shit. It's marijuana not food. You want to make a real difference in the world? Feed people. Give them health care. Donate your time and efforts towards things that make people SURVIVE, not just get high or feel a little better.
    These aren't fictional children being harmed. More than 50,000 people have been murdered by Mexican drug cartels near the US border in the last several years, some of those people being Americans.

    It happens here in the US, too. Look at the turf wars going on in Chicago right now. And have you ever considered the impact drug prohibition has on illegal immigration? It's by no means the only cause, but it is a significant factor in people's decisions to sneak into the US. Central and South American countries have been devastated by our drug war. Cartels are incredibly wealthy and powerful. They have destabilized and corrupted the governments of our neighbors. When the people of these nations can't stand it anymore and come to our doorstep, we spit on them.

    If the rates DID increase, and stay there, I would DEFINITELY not want marijuana legal outside of strict palliative care medicinal purposes--IN PILL FORM. I don't know everything there is to know about everything.. but I feel like you're very idealistic about things and just don't have a sense of reality. If I'm mugged constantly, and getting my shit stolen, and worried about people killing me for drug money, do you think I'm going to be contributing to my local society? It's going to turn places into shit holes instead of places of opportunity. I'd like to see the long term statistics before I decide anything, but if native people of Colorado are moving out and new people are massively moving in--that'd be a very, very ominous sign to me. I don't think it's right to say, "Oh we should subject everyone's lives to all of this because some of the population wants something that isn't even necessary at all because we have a legal form of it for those who are actually sick." That's not the right answer here.
    Idealistic? My views are based upon what has actually happened. You sound like Bill O'Reilly, the man who is afraid of "machines". Drugs were legal for 100,000 years of human history before the temperance movements of the early 20th century managed to make them illegal. Somehow societies managed to not fall apart despite the fact that people used drugs for all of that time. Drug prohibition, like alcohol prohibition, has been a disastrous social experiment. You should read about what has happened in Portugal, where they have decriminalized all drugs. In Portugal, people like you railed against decriminalization, claiming the sky would fall. Amazingly it didn't.

    The whole idea of all of this is that it was suppose to be sooooo great with nearly No repercussions. And I'm saying that's bullshit, and I think there are plenty, and I think there needs to be more objective analyses on what's already been instilled in the current states before we start legalizing it further and seeing changes we can't undo.
    Wrong. The negative impact of legal recreational drugs is not zero, but it is less than the negative impact of prohibited recreational drugs. Cost-benefit analysis is easily on the side of legalization (unless you're a Bill O'Reilly type). Let me list some of the "costs" of drug prohibition, costs people like you dismiss because you don't see them in front of your face every day:

    -Millions of non-violent drug offenders are in prison, costing us billions of dollars every year. The US imprisons more of its own people than any other nation on the planet. So much for the "Land of the Free".
    -The trials of those drug offenders cost us tens, perhaps even hundreds, of millions of dollars every year.
    -Enforcement of drug prohibition costs us somewhere between 50 and 100 billion dollars every year.
    -Drug enforcement has lead to the militarization of our police forces. Police have adopted the attitude of shoot first, ask questions later. They now treat Americans like we're all criminals, like they're an occupying force.
    -Corruption of our own police is widespread. Drug money is just too easy to take given how little police officers are paid. Google "Philadelphia arrests police drugs" for an example.
    -The police spend less time policing real crimes (murder, rape, etc) because those crimes don't bring revenue into the department like drug seizures do.
    -The quick, easy money of drug dealing entices many young males (who aren't capable of properly assessing risk and long-term consequences as most adults can) into a criminal lifestyle rather than prioritizing education, helping to fuel the cycle of poverty in inner cities across the US.
    -Blacks are nearly 10 times more likely to be arrested and imprisoned than whites for identical drug crimes, further fueling the cycle of poverty in inner cities across the US.
    -Drug addicts are unlikely to seek treatment because of the legal implications. Believe it or not, there are many functional drug addicts. And they don't want to risk losing their jobs, so they don't seek treatment.
    -There is no quality control, whatsoever. The poor quality of drugs leads to many overdoses.
    -IV drug use leads to the spread of HIV. This is something that can actually be fixed pretty easily, but that won't happen as long as we treat drug addicts like they're international terrorists.
    -Drug cartels are so wealthy that some drug kingpins have made Forbes' list of the wealthiest people in the world. There will always be criminals, but drug prohibition gives violent criminals a way to make unimaginable amounts of money, increasing their influence on society to dangerous levels.
    -These drug cartels are so powerful that they corrupt the governments. These governments, as a result, are less responsive to the needs of the people which leads to higher emigration rates (and contributes to the illegal immigration problem Republicans whine about so much).

    Those are just off the top of my head. I could come up with some more if I spent time thinking about it. But in your mind those are completely outweighed by the idea that the you'll be "mugged constantly" if drugs are legalized.

    The reality is your idea of ALL drugs being legal is NOT going to happen. Ever. That's just how it is. I'm sorry if you dislike that. But Drug Cartels will NOT go away with the legalization of marijuana. They'll have to get more competitive about the drugs that ARE out there.. and that means more shitty cut-throat behavior all over the place. So I'm not overly concerned about drug cartels.. because even with legalization, people still will do things illegally and they'll still be around. I promise you that.
    Legalization will eventually happen because it is the right thing to do, both morally and economically. The arguments against legalization are pretty much always based on fantastical scare tactics, like the idea that you'll be "mugged constantly". It's rare to see an argument against legalization that doesn't eventually devolve into fear. It's always fear tactics. It's the same tactics conservatives use to fight against gay marriage. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. You must be afraid!
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

Similar Threads

  1. [Other Personality System] The Economics of Libido
    By TCP in forum Typology and Psychology Book Reviews
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-15-2015, 04:18 PM
  2. The Economics of Sex
    By highlander in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-02-2014, 02:09 PM
  3. Replies: 38
    Last Post: 10-17-2011, 10:21 PM
  4. We were warned of the economic collapse, and we ignored that warning...
    By speculative in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 03-05-2010, 07:02 PM
  5. "Mystery" Tours and the threat of legal action
    By matmos in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-08-2010, 08:35 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO