I'm not saying they're fictional. I'm saying they're minor in comparison to things like Gaza. Why do I care that 50,000 people are dying when there are thousands of children dying in a single day overseas? I can't care about the whole world all the time. I'd burn out. And at the end of the day.. shitty things are going to happen to good people with potential. So I just don't buy the sympathy stories. I want to see real results. Show me drug cartel activity going down massively in those areas with *all* drugs and not just marijuana, and crime rates stable at least but certainly not rising, and little effect on job markets and education.. and yeah, sure, I'll sign up and be one of those guys. But I wasn't convinced by anyone's theories good or bad.. Not the government's 'omg hitler was invented by cannabis plants in a funny mustache disguise' propaganda, nor the pot heads that think a syringe of marijuana will cure cancer.These aren't fictional children being harmed. More than 50,000 people have been murdered by Mexican drug cartels near the US border in the last several years, some of those people being Americans.
I want to see what Colorado does. I want to see who stays, who moves in, how the businesses run, how the taxes are paid or avoided. I want to see how much people end up going to rehab. Because almost anyone I know that was in rehab for drugs does not want it to be legal--including people that would BENEFIT from legalization via having bad marks removed from their arrest records and such. That, to me, speaks more than whatever theories people have.
I'd rather take those people in, and get them away from that garbage. Legalizing marijuana here won't make drug cartels go away there. In fact, I fear the worst for those countries with legalization. If they stop selling marijuana significantly.. they'll get creative. They will NOT miss out on their money. They'll push harder drugs, they'll be more cut throat, they'll get aggressive, and they'll attack legal facilities while they're all at it. Hell, we have people attack abortion clinics just because they feel something. Imagine when money is involved. And that's IF we don't have any corruption in the ranks--and there will always be corruption there.It happens here in the US, too. Look at the turf wars going on in Chicago right now. And have you ever considered the impact drug prohibition has on illegal immigration? It's by no means the only cause, but it is a significant factor in people's decisions to sneak into the US. Central and South American countries have been devastated by our drug war. Cartels are incredibly wealthy and powerful. They have destabilized and corrupted the governments of our neighbors. When the people of these nations can't stand it anymore and come to our doorstep, we spit on them.
Insults aren't necessary. You said I sounded selfish--I'm cool with that. I say you sound idealistic--because I believe you are. But I'm not a fear-monger old guy that shouts at people and bullies them into thinking what I think. I'm allowed to think I'm right--and you're allowed to tell me I'm wrong. I'm not saying marijuana is the devil's juice--but I don't like it, want nothing to do with it, and my experiences have only backed that up throughout my life.You sound like Bill O'Reilly, the man who is afraid of "machines".
I don't know about you, but I don't base my stuff off of history thousands of years ago. History makes great points--but beating women, using children as slave labor, owning slaves, killing people and getting away with it, absolute corruption--they were all ingrained in those histories too, and perfectly legal. I'm looking at today. And today is very very different from 100,000 years ago. Guns weren't a factor for much of that. People didn't have cars they could get behind the wheel of and destroy an entire family without ever meaning to.. People weren't flying a plane with hundreds of passengers on it. It's a different world.. with different rules. It's okay to look back at history and take the good and leave the bad.. but I don't think, in this situation, the two are comparable. Getting fucked up and high was.. essentially not so bad back then, you were sort of on your own. There was no welfare for free money to spend on shit if you used your money for drugs. No hospitals to take you in when you ODed. People weren't spending their money on others back then. There was no saving your ass, you just died if you didn't get food on your own somehow and spent it all on drugs. I don't think I want to see that kind of barbarism come back to us. I don't want that history brought back to our age.Drugs were legal for 100,000 years of human history before the temperance movements of the early 20th century managed to make them illegal. Somehow societies managed to not fall apart despite the fact that people used drugs for all of that time.
I'm not saying the sky will fall. I know for a fact it won't. I'm saying why the fuck do I care if people get high or not if I hate what drugs do and if the sky won't fall either way, and I've seen first hand the damages these drugs cause? Either they're illegal and there's all this shit.. Or they're legal, and there's shit still. I just don't give a shit about if people use drugs or not. I really don't care. I just don't want to be a part of it.Drug prohibition, like alcohol prohibition, has been a disastrous social experiment. You should read about what has happened in Portugal, where they have decriminalized all drugs. In Portugal, people like you railed against decriminalization, claiming the sky would fall. Amazingly it didn't.
I've already said it'll end up legal whether I like it or not. And the people who experience marijuana, and other drugs, and quit.. All tell me the same things: They believed it was their gateway drug, that they were dependent, and that they don't want it legal, but decriminalized. I don't believe decriminalization is such a bad process at all. I'd prefer it to legalizing it.
All would be relieved massively with decriminalization as well, and without the widespread sweeping changes of legalization. Decriminalization would make the states massive amounts of money too--the same way those stupid red light cameras do.-Millions of non-violent drug offenders are in prison, costing us billions of dollars every year. The US imprisons more of its own people than any other nation on the planet. So much for the "Land of the Free".
-The trials of those drug offenders cost us tens, perhaps even hundreds, of millions of dollars every year.
-Enforcement of drug prohibition costs us somewhere between 50 and 100 billion dollars every year.
Having worked as a cop, and closely with cops.. and being the world's worst cop ever. I have to say, it doesn't help that they attract ex-military in the first place. But this seems to be an issue with more than just drugs.. the militarization thing is a totally different topic, and has been caused by more than just drug usage.-Drug enforcement has lead to the militarization of our police forces. Police have adopted the attitude of shoot first, ask questions later. They now treat Americans like we're all criminals, like they're an occupying force.
It's everywhere. In every job. Corruption will infiltrate, massively, places of drug distribution as well. They won't be immune to it. And Marijuana is just one drug. Like I said, I'm looking at realities.. No one in America will ever say, "Yeah, lets make every single drug legal ever." I don't think I will see that in my lifetime even if you had God himself coming down and blessing people with the knowledge. So.. That won't go away with legalization. Same with the militarization.-Corruption of our own police is widespread. Drug money is just too easy to take given how little police officers are paid. Google "Philadelphia arrests police drugs" for an example.
Not every officer is equipped to solve things like that. Do it wrong, and you'll end up hurting the case more than helping it. Yeah, the people who do that stuff are over worked.. just like any field with something that ACTUALLY helps out society. But the people who are there are there because they want to be. I don't think we'll see that change too much.-The police spend less time policing real crimes (murder, rape, etc) because those crimes don't bring revenue into the department like drug seizures do.
More than just drugs entice young men to not focus on education. I think we'd do more good working directly in communities that need help with this sort of thing--but that involves people caring, getting off their asses, and doing it. It's easy to say, "Oh, that'll get fixed more if I vote for this." Because then you don't have to get up and go do it yourself. I don't see young people stopping doing risky behavior ever.. but I do see more good in reforming education and putting charter schools into areas that need help than I think I'd see from marijuana being more available. It isn't like the kids would be able to buy it anyways--they'd have to be a certain age.. so it'd still be risky behavior involving selling drugs.-The quick, easy money of drug dealing entices many young males (who aren't capable of properly assessing risk and long-term consequences as most adults can) into a criminal lifestyle rather than prioritizing education, helping to fuel the cycle of poverty in inner cities across the US.
Again, I think reforms have better long term affects. Stop arresting blacks for drugs, they'll pick on blacks for something else. Racism isn't going away entirely.. I'm sad to say. I don't see marijuana doing anything more than a temporary band-aid for this.-Blacks are nearly 10 times more likely to be arrested and imprisoned than whites for identical drug crimes, further fueling the cycle of poverty in inner cities across the US.
They don't seek treatment for many reasons. This is definitely one of them. But even legal drugs--like alcohol... They don't want to lose their jobs, so they don't tell anyone they have a problem. I don't see marijuana changing this status quo in the favor of treatment centers. Not by much. If people are ready for treatment, they will go and get treated. They'll make every excuse in the book before then.-Drug addicts are unlikely to seek treatment because of the legal implications. Believe it or not, there are many functional drug addicts. And they don't want to risk losing their jobs, so they don't seek treatment.
At the AA meeting I last attended.. The guy said, "My whole family told me. They tried to help me. No one got to me. I was watching Click.. a stupid Adam Sandler movie.. and .. that's when I realized I was an alcoholic. I saw him trying to press stop and play.. and the remote auto-fast-forwarded on his whole life. And I related to it so much I broke down and cried right there." It doesn't matter how many people care about them.. They'll do what they do until something presses them to change. It's an individual thing. Legal or not, people seek help when they're ready.
Completely agreed. But I think the pill form has more control over the quality and distribution. It's easier and more effective. I'm not against people using marijuana.. especially if they need it.. but the pills are better between the two. It's easier to get a sense of how much someone has had. Just because you cannot OD on marijuana doesn't mean it won't cause permanent damage with prolonged and extended use.-There is no quality control, whatsoever. The poor quality of drugs leads to many overdoses.
Legalizing drugs, even in hypothetical all-legal-ever-wonderland, will still lead to sharing needles. People that use drugs don't get it.. they don't think about the long term affects of their actions. They don't care if someone hasn't been tested for STDs. They want a hit, and that person has it.-IV drug use leads to the spread of HIV. This is something that can actually be fixed pretty easily, but that won't happen as long as we treat drug addicts like they're international terrorists.
Which is still going to happen because no one in their right mind now-a-days is going to say, "Sure, let's make heroin legal." So, again, I'm not concerned about drug cartels. They exist and they aren't going away anytime soon.-Drug cartels are so wealthy that some drug kingpins have made Forbes' list of the wealthiest people in the world. There will always be criminals, but drug prohibition gives violent criminals a way to make unimaginable amounts of money, increasing their influence on society to dangerous levels.
Yeah. They are. Because they will. Like I said. I'm living Right now. And right now, in my life time, I will be simply speechless if drug cartels are dismantled because of legalization of all drugs. It just isn't happening. It won't happen. So.. With THAT in mind. Yeah, decriminalization will lead to a lot less ramifications in my head without just condoning straight-out drug use for recreational purposes. I just don't think it's a bad thing to look at something not only useless and unproductive, but actually bad for someone, and saying you don't want anything to do with that. I just don't.But in your mind those are completely outweighed by the idea that the you'll be "mugged constantly" if drugs are legalized.
Legalization will eventually happen--I agreed with that from the beginning. It will happen..
Now you're just being a grammar nazi. I don't know if you noticed.. but I speak in a fantastical way about pretty much everything. I say I am dying when I have a cold. I say I'll be mugged constantly when I mean "the crime rates on petty crimes will rise 60-96% according to these statistics of actual reported petty crimes in the last year." Let's be a little reasonable here...The arguments against legalization are pretty much always based on fantastical scare tactics, like the idea that you'll be "mugged constantly".
But my arguments are not scare tactics. They are real. Drug cartels WILL find a way to replace those funds they lose with massive legal marijuana--and that's IF they lose those funds. I don't see cartels getting less powerful with marijuana being legal. I see them getting more pissed off. If I've learned anything from shitty people it's that when they want something, they'll find a way to get it. I see more benefits from decriminalization than I do from legalization. That isn't a scare tactic out of legalization.. that's based on real shit in the world today. Your idea, to me, only works if they're all legal RIGHT now AND have the support of the people using the drugs. And since I think that it won't work.. I think more would get done immediately with decriminalization.
Because drugs are a scary thing. It isn't like gay marriage where there's nothing stemming from it--I get the fear here. I've seen it. I've seen children born fucked up because mothers could not quit cocaine addictions pregnant. I've seen people killed because people under the influence couldn't decide to not drive. I don't know if you've ever worked with people recovering from drugs.. but if you have.. I don't know how you're still SO pro-drug without any reservations. Gay marriage is a completely different issue.. I get what you're saying, I don't like the mindless fear-mongering either. But there is a real fear with drugs. They make people make not-so-great decisions.It's rare to see an argument against legalization that doesn't eventually devolve into fear. It's always fear tactics. It's the same tactics conservatives use to fight against gay marriage. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. Fear. You must be afraid!
Like that lady that destroyed a couple's house, didn't know them was just on a meth binge, and was hiding under their bed scraping the mattress with a butcher's knife. That isn't that odd of a situation.. People get on drugs, and jump into traffic (how many of the people who ended up at my Psych ward got there), start beating on people's doors at all hours of the night, steal shit, mug people.. there's a lot of bad decisions made on drugs. It's understandable to be scared of them. No one who uses drugs has proven people wrong really. The people who use drugs, stop using them, never were addicted.. those people may not be in the minority, but they aren't the ones people are scared of either. It only takes one guy upset and wanting crack to end my life. Whether the crack is legal or not.. money still needs to be there. And money is still the primary reason drug addicts turn to violence and crime. Drugs are expensive habits that require money.