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  1. #1
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Default Jesse Ventura wins defaming case

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/us...suit.html?_r=0

    TLDR: Jesse Ventura was alluded in a famous navy seal's book as saying the navy seals 'deserve to lose a few', and Chris Kyle punched this guy. Allegedly. Mr. Ventura says it never happened, now everyone hates him and he can't recover from it, so he's suing the estate. And he won. He said he was in the bar, but never said that stuff and didn't get into a fight.

    Do you think Chris Kyle, now deceased, punched the guy in the bar? Was the story made up? Even so.. do you think it's the right thing to do (if his defense is that he cannot recover from the bad publicity) to go after the widow's estate now that the guy is dead? I'm not asking for if what he did was legal--clearly it was. I'm asking moral, subjective questions here. Leave the robot logic at the door plz.
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  2. #2
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Gut reaction: Mr Ventura is a small man.

    The man is dead -- just let it go.

    And... I might have missed the details, but seriously, were they the only people in the bar? No one else saw the incident? Were they both very drunk or something? It just seems such a trivial thing to have a million-dollar lawsuit over.
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  3. #3
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    if your personhood can be destroyed by lies it wasn't that strong to begin with...

    obama got elected despite rumors of not being eligible to be so...

    and you can't survive a bar scandal...

    bill clinton is still adored despite it being known for fact that he was unfaithful...

    and you can't survive a bar scandal....

    probably more about the money, seeing as the power he wants is out of his reach...

    jesse venturwho? exactly my point.

    so he got paid.

  4. #4
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Jesse Ventura should be the next president of USA
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  5. #5
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    I don't see the problem honestly. If the guy lied and made money off of it, he doesn't suddenly become a better person because he's dead. If I used a ponzi scheme or committed fraud and made a bunch of money off of it and then died, is my family somehow entitled to keep all of the money because I'm dead? I know it's not exactly the same thing but many of the same principles apply. I think most people are just instinctively siding with Kyle because that's how people treat soldiers, especially glamorized ones like SEALs. It's not like the guys family would have made the money without the book and publicity so why should he stop suing just because the guy died? His bad image didn't suddenly become good when Kyle died.
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  6. #6
    Google "chemtrails" Bush Did 9/11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    so why should he stop suing just because the guy died? His bad image didn't suddenly become good when Kyle died.
    Yeah, definitely. People die. It's a fact of life.

    Ventura deserves to be able to clear his name even if the dude is dead.

    It's also cool that he's a politician who had a scandal exposed, but the scandal turned out to not be true. That doesn't happen a lot.

  7. #7
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21% View Post
    No one else saw the incident? Were they both very drunk or something? It just seems such a trivial thing to have a million-dollar lawsuit over.
    11 witnesses. Many people interacting with Ventura stating inflammatory remarks were made about the military and all that. The courts said they weren't to determine whether Ventura got punched, but whether writing about it and dropping his name defamed him.

    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    probably more about the money, seeing as the power he wants is out of his reach...

    jesse venturwho? exactly my point.

    so he got paid.
    I'd agree there, considering the estate is worth $6 million and the attorney for Jesse Ventura said $5 mil - $15 mil was adequate compensation. He ended up getting 1/6th of the estate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    I don't see the problem honestly. If the guy lied and made money off of it, he doesn't suddenly become a better person because he's dead. If I used a ponzi scheme or committed fraud and made a bunch of money off of it and then died, is my family somehow entitled to keep all of the money because I'm dead? I know it's not exactly the same thing but many of the same principles apply. I think most people are just instinctively siding with Kyle because that's how people treat soldiers, especially glamorized ones like SEALs. It's not like the guys family would have made the money without the book and publicity so why should he stop suing just because the guy died? His bad image didn't suddenly become good when Kyle died.
    It was stated in interviews that the suing started when Kyle was still alive.. and no, people don't magically become better people, but there is a humanistic side of things that says this woman now lacks the head of her household and father of her children to run and care for all of the shit he's built. The book never states it was him originally... they nickname the guy who was punched. And there were several witnesses that confirmed the story in one way or another--but no one confirmed the exact quote (but things very similar as being said were recalled), and the punch was definitely witnessed. The jury was asked to see if the guy was defamed--I don't believe he was because if you say someone said x, and you did x as a result.. and those x's really happened, that's not defaming, that's recalling a story. Embarrassing yes, but not defaming. The guy isn't around to make testimony, but confirms what he said is truth in a video, and witnesses of it that were there agree with Kyle. Over 11. No one on Ventura's side is showing witnesses denying Ventura said any of those things. The asking for nearly the entire estate or more than the estate isn't exactly classy either, and Jesse Ventura didn't even bother to prove he had much in the way of 1.8 million's worth of anything (more less the original asking compensation) lined up that were inexplicably cancelled or destroyed after the book was released. In fact, no one heard Ventura lined up to do anything prior to the book release.. he's been hiding in Mexico half the years and doing off the grid shows on youtube.
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  8. #8
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Also @Metamorphosis, you fail at this. "Leave the robot logic at the door plz."

    Quote Originally Posted by jscrothers View Post
    Yeah, definitely. People die. It's a fact of life.

    Ventura deserves to be able to clear his name even if the dude is dead.

    It's also cool that he's a politician who had a scandal exposed, but the scandal turned out to not be true. That doesn't happen a lot.
    Except there's nothing really stating it isn't true. The witnesses at the bar were all saying it was true. It can't be said if the quote in the book was exact, but something akin to it was said.. and even outside of that situation, many of the witnesses illustrated scenarios where Ventura was making things unnecessarily political at places like wakes. I'm not really convinced it isn't true... 11 people all saying somewhere abouts the same thing? A consistent story from 11 eye witnesses from the night? And no witnesses really standing up and saying none of it was said and that Kyle was just a drunk asshole at the time?
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
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  9. #9
    You have a choice! 21%'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    11 witnesses. Many people interacting with Ventura stating inflammatory remarks were made about the military and all that. The courts said they weren't to determine whether Ventura got punched, but whether writing about it and dropping his name defamed him.
    I see. Thanks for the extra info. This makes it very easy. I agree with you that it's not 'defaming' if you're telling the truth.

    What the heck is wrong with the courts? Did someone secretly get a cut from all that money?


    Quote Originally Posted by xisnotx View Post
    if your personhood can be destroyed by lies it wasn't that strong to begin with...
    I like this.
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  10. #10
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    The woman might have lost the head of the household but they wouldn't have even had all of that money if he hadn't written that book. If you're in special operations, you shouldn't be writing books. Whether it was an ethical move or not, the courts clearly made a decision. If it sucks, that's really not that surprising because most juries are full of idiots that are making stupid decisions every day. I think a lot of people are also forgetting that Ventura was essentially a SEAL so who gives a fuck if he was talking shit about the military. The real issue seems to be with the fact that Kyle is dead and he kept on going, not that he sued him in the first place.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

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