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  1. #21
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We are debating legalising marijuana for medical purposes. Of course it would be easy to isolate the active ingredient in marijuana and give them as pills to patients. But those who want to legalise marijuana don't want a pill, they want to smoke it.
    Why let people freely medicate themselves when we can force everyone to give some of their money to corporations in the process? Have you always been a strong supporter of the pharmaceutical industry?
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #22
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Default Smoking Reduces Life Expectancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Why let people freely medicate themselves when we can force everyone to give some of their money to corporations in the process? Have you always been a strong supporter of the pharmaceutical industry?
    Of course I am a strong supporter of evidence based medicine. And the pharmceutical industry is based on evidence based medicine. And the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as evidence based medicine and the pharmaceutical industry has increased our life span by 35 years.

    The dramatic increase in life expectancy in the 20th century is one of society's greatest achievements.

    And the dramatic increase in life expectancy is due to the Enlightenment and evidence based medicine.

    On the other hand, smoking reduces life expectancy.

    And worse, buying illegal drugs fuels the drug cartels and corruption, murder, torture and terrorism.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Of course I am a strong supporter of evidence based medicine. And the pharmceutical industry is based on evidence based medicine. And the proof of the pudding is in the eating, as evidence based medicine and the pharmaceutical industry has increased our life span by 35 years.
    Where is the evidence that a marijuana pill would be any more effective than smoking it or using a vaporizer? If that cannot be demonstrated, then you are fooling yourself if you belief that you are supporting evidence-based medicine on this particular issue.

    The dramatic increase in life expectancy in the 20th century is one of society's greatest achievements.

    And the dramatic increase in life expectancy is due to the Enlightenment and evidence based medicine.
    No, that's due more to sanitation than anything else, not vaccines and medicine.

    On the other hand, smoking reduces life expectancy.

    And worse, buying illegal drugs fuels the drug cartels and corruption, murder, torture and terrorism.
    Buying illegal drugs fuels cartels and corruption only if they're illegal.

    The idea of evidence-based medicine makes me laugh a little. My wife is a doctor and talks about this a lot. So much about practicing medicine is trial and error. It's not really evidence-based. Human bodies are far too complex for anyone to say a drug will have a certain effect.

    Paradoxical reaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We are debating legalising marijuana for medical purposes. Of course it would be easy to isolate the active ingredient in marijuana and give them as pills to patients. But those who want to legalise marijuana don't want a pill, they want to smoke it.
    smoking cannabis causes a significant amount of thc to be lost through exhaled or non-inhaled smoke. in contrast, all active constituents enter the body when ingested, causing a more intense high over a longer duration of time. furthermore, butter allows thc to be better absorbed into the bloodstream.

    oral assumption is more efficient in every way for those who want a better time and more bang for their buck. if there's any reason people rely on the smoking method as heavily as they do, it's that doing so removes illegal evidence more quickly, and that it's far more convenient than trying to insert it into a pill the way an Rx manufacturer would, or trying to separate the thc from the bitter plant in order to avoid making a foul tasting food.

    in short, legalizing weed would make it more user-friendly.
    Of course the elephant in the room is that marijuana and sex go together beautifully. So they want to legalise marijuana, not for medical reasons, but for sex.

    I suggest Trantric Sex is a better and safer path to follow.
    wat

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    On the other hand, smoking reduces life expectancy.
    tell that to patients who's cancer cells are destroyed by cannabinoids.

  6. #26
    Entertaining Cracker five sounds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    We are debating legalising marijuana for medical purposes. Of course it would be easy to isolate the active ingredient in marijuana and give them as pills to patients. But those who want to legalise marijuana don't want a pill, they want to smoke it.

    Of course the elephant in the room is that marijuana and sex go together beautifully. So they want to legalise marijuana, not for medical reasons, but for sex.

    I suggest Trantric Sex is a better and safer path to follow.
    Sex? I think you're missing the mark here mole. I have never associated marijuana with sex. There is a pleasure in smoking that I won't deny. The sensation of inhaling smoke is enjoyable to some, myself included. There is also a different 'high' experienced when thc is ingested rather than smoked. It's a more physical buzz than mental shift. I much prefer the mental effects of smoked marijuana to the physical effects of ingestion. I also feel less impaired in this state.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by five sounds View Post
    Sex? I think you're missing the mark here mole. I have never associated marijuana with sex. There is a pleasure in smoking that I won't deny. The sensation of inhaling smoke is enjoyable to some, myself included. There is also a different 'high' experienced when thc is ingested rather than smoked. It's a more physical buzz than mental shift. I much prefer the mental effects of smoked marijuana to the physical effects of ingestion. I also feel less impaired in this state.
    yeah. i mean, i guess some folks prefer impairing their motor functions when they're doin' the ol' in 'n' out? to each his own? lol

    i never knew that bit about ingestion - i'll go ahead and presume that would be true for most people. smoking also has its "ritualistic" values - passing the bong brings people together. either way - -

    "The Coronary Artery Risk Development in Young Adults (CARDIA) study, a longitudinal study collecting repeated measurements of pulmonary function and smoking over 20 years (March 26, 1985-August 19, 2006) in a cohort of 5115 men and women in 4 US cities. Mixed linear modeling was used to account for individual age-based trajectories of pulmonary function and other covariates including tobacco use, which was analyzed in parallel as a positive control. Lifetime exposure to marijuana joints was expressed in joint-years, with 1 joint-year of exposure equivalent to smoking 365 joints or filled pipe bowls.

    ...

    Conclusion: Occasional and low cumulative marijuana use was not associated with adverse effects on pulmonary function.

    Exposure to tobacco smoke causes lung damage with clinical consequences that include respiratory symptoms, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, and lung cancer.1,2 Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease and lung cancer are leading causes of death,2,3 and smoking tobacco cigarettes is the most important preventable cause of death in the United States.4,5

    Marijuana smoke contains many of the same constituents as tobacco smoke,6 but it is unclear whether smoking marijuana causes pulmonary damage similar to that caused by tobacco. Prior studies of marijuana smokers have demonstrated consistent evidence of airway mucosal injury and inflammation7- 9 as well as increased respiratory symptoms such as cough, phlegm production, and wheeze, similar to that seen in tobacco smokers.10- 12 However, analyses of pulmonary function and lung disease have failed to detect clear adverse effects of marijuana use on pulmonary function.10- 13 It is possible that cumulative damage to the lungs from years of marijuana use could be masked by short-term effects; prior analyses have not attempted to disentangle these factors. Smoking marijuana is increasingly common in the United States,14 and understanding whether it causes lasting damage to lung function has important implications for public health messaging and medical use of marijuana.15,16"


    JAMA | Association Between Marijuana Exposure and Pulmonary Function Over 20 Years

  8. #28
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    marijuana can trigger psychosis in a very small percent of the general population, though it is rare it does happen. I'm still for legalizing though, I won't smoke it but I shouldn't take that right away from others. Plus I really think it be better for everything in the long run if it was legal.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #29
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Where is the evidence that a marijuana pill would be any more effective than smoking it or using a vaporizer? If that cannot be demonstrated, then you are fooling yourself if you belief that you are supporting evidence-based medicine on this particular issue.


    No, that's due more to sanitation than anything else, not vaccines and medicine.
    The issue isn't that it works better -- That's still to be proven or not, but studies are showing that it is at least on par..Medical marijuana more effective in pill form than smoking: study - NY Daily News -- but that it is easier and safer to use. The pill doesn't cause quite all of the.. er.. other side effects that are desired by recreational drug users. Believe it or not people actually don't want to doped up and high all of the time in their lives. It does relieve pain and to stimulate appetite in patients with cancer. And when you're already having medical issues, smoking something with like twice the carbon monoxide of cigarettes isn't really as advisable as taking only the ingredient you actually need. No one recommends smoking anything for health benefits--it is advisable not to do that.. 'safe' drug or not, there's a reason why we don't give anything in a smoking drug form. It's bad for your lungs and breaks them down. The actual smoke does. Plus, you don't need the smoke. You just need the THC. Just like digoxin is just the foxglove flower without nearly the same amount of poison and more precise, the usable ingredient is harvested and put into a form we can actually track and monitor in a viable way. "1 joint" isn't really as easy to monitor as "2 doses at x mg/tab." Being precise is important in medical settings. Also, you can administer it in a hospital setting, something you cannot do with smoked weed because of allergens, contact highs, etc.

    But to the second part.. You're advocating for people to medicate themselves. Then you're saying that medication has nothing to do with life expectancy and quality of life. I don't get it. If you're saying medicine is good, I get it.. but you're saying it isn't that great? but that people should definitely super have it anyways? Why should I even care if it isn't even that great at doing its job? Sanitation is certainly one of the biggest contributions.. but to say vaccines and medicine have not played a major role in things is not really accurate at all.

    Not to mention.. If your wife is a doctor, she's probably seen.. how bad people really are at medicating themselves. Just a side note.. People have a perception that things are just safe--and then they abuse it because they assume it safe.. and before you know it people are coming in with liver failure because they thought tylenol wasn't so bad and there are campaigns everywhere trying to get people to take it as recommended. I had no idea how many bad habits I truly had about medicine until I started learning about the drugs themselves. And I never even took medicine outside of the recommended parameters.
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  10. #30
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    marijuana can trigger psychosis in a very small percent of the general population, though it is rare it does happen. I'm still for legalizing though, I won't smoke it but I shouldn't take that right away from others. Plus I really think it be better for everything in the long run if it was legal.
    It's really bad when it does happen though.. Patients I was working with this semester were pretty much pre-disposed to psychosis, and drugs triggered it in the brain.. and the brain sort of learns that new pathway, and doesn't un-learn it even if you take the drugs out of the equation. You think it's not such a big deal because you see people using it all the time.. but it was scary to see how crazy flipped out someone can be from using something like marijuana. (This is not me arguing for or against it people of the thread.. just confirming a post.)
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

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