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  1. #21
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    "Palestinians" are Arabs who defiantly planted themselves on that soil after the Israeli state was created in 1949. As far as body counts and whatever are concerned: so what, if the Palestinians don't like it they can just move back to where they came from.
    No - they didn't plant themselves after Israel was formed, they were Arabs who has previously been under British and Ottoman empires, they had been there for centuries. Palestinians are poor Arabs, they're mostly farmers and bedouins.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeceptiveCreative View Post
    Why are you posting an article from the Israeli times? That's not an impartial source.

    What permanent borders?
    None of the sources are impartial.

    That's just it; Hamas rejection of permanent borders (and permanent peace) is categorical, not contingent on an acceptable Israeli offer as is the official stance of Fatah.

  3. #23
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    I was actually referring to Israeli targets of Hamas attacks, the 'human shield' accusation is somewhat more complicated as, while it does happen, I'm not sure how much of that is deliberate and how much is an effect of the dense population and small area in Gaza.
    How is this not genocide, though? How come you don't have as much contempt for them as you do Hamas? Double standards. I don't agree with Hamas, they have a lot to answer for yet, at the same time, Israel's military is funded by the US whereas Hamas' is funded by asses (this donkey joke won't die).

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    That's just it; Hamas rejection of permanent borders (and permanent peace) is categorical, not contingent on an acceptable Israeli offer as is the official stance of Fatah.
    How do you know this? Also, Hamas is not the one building illegal settlements and avoiding peace treaties.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    The Palestinian Arabs fled, returned to the Gaza Strip, and never left. So of course they defiantly planted themselves in the sand.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #25
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeceptiveCreative View Post
    How is this not genocide, though? How come you don't have as much contempt for them as you do Hamas? Double standards. I don't agree with Hamas, they have a lot to answer for yet, at the same time, Israel's military is funded by the US whereas Hamas' is funded by asses (this donkey joke won't die).

    How do you know this? Also, Hamas is not the one building illegal settlements and avoiding peace treaties.
    I have not heard that using human shields is a standard or officially sanctioned policy of the IDF, and like I said, I left out the human shield question due to the difficulty differentiating intent from circumstance (for both sides). Also, it would not be genocide, it would be war crimes.

    The Hamas charter, which they have thus far refused to change: Hamas Covenant - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Edit: and both sides are avoiding peace treaties, and the illegal settlements are indeed a problem, but not on the same moral plane as the things that Hamas has done.

  6. #26
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The Palestinian Arabs fled, returned to the Gaza Strip, and never left. So of course they defiantly planted themselves in the sand.
    um, that has nothing to do with your contention that non-Palestinian Arabs moved to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in large numbers after 1949 (Jordan used to claim and govern the West Bank, but I believe migration was primarily from the West Bank into Jordan). Non-Palestinian Arabs did start to move into Palestine in large numbers after the early Zionist settlers did the same thing (partly in defiance, partly as a result of new economic opportunities brought about by Jewish settlement), but that was before the war, and they are now logically as much Palestinian as the Jewish settlers are Israeli.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    um, that has nothing to do with your contention that non-Palestinian Arabs moved to the West Bank and Gaza Strip in large numbers after 1949 (Jordan used to claim and govern the West Bank, but I believe migration was primarily from the West Bank into Jordan). Non-Palestinian Arabs did start to move into Palestine in large numbers after the early Zionist settlers did the same thing (partly in defiance, partly as a result of new economic opportunities brought about by Jewish settlement), but that was before the war, and they are now logically as much Palestinian as the Jewish settlers are Israeli.
    There is no such thing as a Palestinian. That's why I wrote it as "Palestinian" Arab above. So I would not have used the term "non-Palestinian" as you did.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    PLO leader Zuheir Mohsen states:
    Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Hafez Assad, dictator of Syria:

    Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #30
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    There is no such thing as a Palestinian. That's why I wrote it as "Palestinian" Arab above. So I would not have used the term "non-Palestinian" as you did.
    If there wasn't before, there are now....and "Arab residents of the British Mandate of Palestine" is too unwieldy.

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