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  1. #11
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    If Hamas routinely used donkeys instead of brainwashed children and young people, and sent said donkey-bombs toward soldiers rather than other children, I wouldn't hold them in such contempt.
    Hamas routinely uses brainwashed children as suicide bombers? Really?

  2. #12
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Yeah, this is the one arena I know enough about to say that the Palestinians are royally getting slaughtered and screwed. As I understand it, U.S. backed Israel just took a big chunk of the Palestine and started making settlements.
    These infographics have been trending on twitter and tumblr and it might interest you (or anyone reading this):



    palestinian apartheid



    Why Palestine? They considered lands in the U.S. and Canada, I believe. Why in a region surrounded by Islam, and people that generally don't like you? I guess it says in the bible that's where the holy land is, or some crap. Plus the western powers wanting some foothold in the region.

    I need to do some homework here, but Palestine got screwed.
    Those graphs did not surprise me at all but it's good to see that people are much more aware these days!

    All three Abrahamic religions believe that the land is holy, the Torah states that it's the capital of Judaism. Muslims value Jerusalem because they believed many prophets were associated to it and that their main prophet, Mohammed, flew on a winged horse on a holy night. The occupation of Palestinian dates all the way back to the British mandate between 1917-1948. Battles occurred between Arabs and British authorities because Arabs weren't given political status and when they finally were given political status they were only designated as a British colony. Prior to that Palestine was managed by the Ottoman empire although Jews started Zionist colonies as early as 1902.

    Since the bond between Arab nations is weaker than that of European nations and it's a haven for oil tycoon's, I'm not surprised they seized the opportunity. Like you said, it was convenient fix for the allies after WW2 - give Jews back their holy land (in compensation) whilst maintaining a hold on resourceful land. I read here that the US has provided Israel with a total of $134 billion in aid (taxpayer money).

    Is anyone else aware that it's still the Islamic holy month? I don't care for religion but I wouldn't want to be killed around Christmas.
    Night is another candle

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Hamas routinely uses brainwashed children as suicide bombers? Really?
    Yes: 13,000 teens complete Hamas training camps to emulate 'suicide martyrs' | The Times of Israel

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg

    Now, yes, the brainwashed children usually wait until after they're legal adults to participate, that's just not a distinction I felt like making on an off-the-cuff comment, especially as I see only a little moral difference between brainwashing children from early childhood to become a suicide bomber at a young age and sending them off while they're only a few years younger.

  4. #14
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeceptiveCreative View Post
    These infographics have been trending on twitter and tumblr and it might interest you (or anyone reading this):



    palestinian apartheid





    Those graphs did not surprise me at all but it's good to see that people are much more aware these days!

    All three Abrahamic religions believe that the land is holy, the Torah states that it's the capital of Judaism. Muslims value Jerusalem because they believed many prophets were associated to it and that their main prophet, Mohammed, flew on a winged horse on a holy night. The occupation of Palestinian dates all the way back to the British mandate between 1917-1948. Battles occurred between Arabs and British authorities because Arabs weren't given political status and when they finally were given political status they were only designated as a British colony. Prior to that Palestine was managed by the Ottoman empire although Jews started Zionist colonies as early as 1902.

    Since the bond between Arab nations is weaker than that of European nations and it's a haven for oil tycoon's, I'm not surprised they seized the opportunity. Like you said, it was convenient fix for the allies after WW2 - give Jews back their holy land (in compensation) whilst maintaining a hold on resourceful land. I read here that the US has provided Israel with a total of $134 billion in aid (taxpayer money).

    Is anyone else aware that it's still the Islamic holy month? I don't care for religion but I wouldn't want to be killed around Christmas.

    WOW. Those graphics say it all. Geez. Nice find.

    Yeah, I take time to understand sides and I am by NO means "USA!!! Motherfuckers! We are always in the right!" And I have a LOT of negative things to say about Islam in general, BUT I have to side with Palestine on this one. Israel, let's face it, the United States, was like, ok fuck you Palestine, we take what we want.

    However, at this point, shit, Palestine, maybe it's time to cut your losses. Throwing rocks at tanks and Donkey Bombs that hurt no one, haha (sorry that is funny to me) is a preettty good sign you may be fighting a losing battle. And by that, I mean, just give up.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    I need to do some homework here, but Palestine got screwed.
    Indeed they did, and it would have made more moral and practical sense to create a Jewish nation out of East Prussia, but then the Palestinians got screwed again by their ostensible allies who a.) ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab lands (losing any moral high ground and turning the outcome into a population exchange along the lines of Greece and Turkey) and b.) either refused citizenship to the Palestinian refugees or, in the case of Jordan, tried to annex their remaining land. As for the modern conflict, the Israelis are hardly saints, but that does not excuse Hamas from a.) targeting civilians, b.) brainwashing their children to do the same, and c.) categorically refusing to accept any sort of permanent peace treaty with Israel.

    I don't hate the Palestinians, they actually remind me a lot of my own ancestors and regional culture overall (especially having known a few in this country), and Americans have been too quick to discount their legitimate grievances and interests.....but I hate Hamas in much the same way as I hate the KKK and similar groups, they are more responsible than virtually any other faction for the intractability of the conflict, and I strongly oppose efforts to 'legitimize' them until and unless they change their ways, especially regarding permanent borders and brainwashing (which most affect long-term peace prospects).

  6. #16
    Glamour puss with a tan Raffaella's Avatar
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    Why are you posting an article from the Israeli times? That's not an impartial source.

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Indeed they did, and it would have made more moral and practical sense to create a Jewish nation out of East Prussia, but then the Palestinians got screwed again by their ostensible allies who a.) ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab lands (losing any moral high ground and turning the outcome into a population exchange along the lines of Greece and Turkey) and b.) either refused citizenship to the Palestinian refugees or, in the case of Jordan, tried to annex their remaining land. As for the modern conflict, the Israelis are hardly saints, but that does not excuse Hamas from a.) targeting civilians, b.) brainwashing their children to do the same, and c.) categorically refusing to accept any sort of permanent peace treaty with Israel.

    I don't hate the Palestinians, they actually remind me a lot of my own ancestors and regional culture overall (especially having known a few in this country), and Americans have been too quick to discount their legitimate grievances and interests.....but I hate Hamas in much the same way as I hate the KKK and similar groups, they are more responsible than virtually any other faction for the intractability of the conflict, and I strongly oppose efforts to 'legitimize' them until and unless they change their ways, especially regarding permanent borders and brainwashing (which most affect long-term peace prospects).
    What permanent borders? You mean the illegal Israeli settlements on occupied Palestinian land that Hamas is trying to protect? Furthermore, why are criticising Hamas when they arranged for ANOTHER peace treaty and Israel and Egypt didn't even respond?

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  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    "Palestinians" are Arabs who defiantly planted themselves on that soil after the Israeli state was created in 1949. As far as body counts and whatever are concerned: so what, if the Palestinians don't like it they can just move back to where they came from.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  8. #18
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Indeed they did, and it would have made more moral and practical sense to create a Jewish nation out of East Prussia, but then the Palestinians got screwed again by their ostensible allies who a.) ethnically cleansed hundreds of thousands of Jews from Arab lands (losing any moral high ground and turning the outcome into a population exchange along the lines of Greece and Turkey) and b.) either refused citizenship to the Palestinian refugees or, in the case of Jordan, tried to annex their remaining land. As for the modern conflict, the Israelis are hardly saints, but that does not excuse Hamas from a.) targeting civilians, b.) brainwashing their children to do the same, and c.) categorically refusing to accept any sort of permanent peace treaty with Israel.

    I don't hate the Palestinians, they actually remind me a lot of my own ancestors and regional culture overall (especially having known a few in this country), and Americans have been too quick to discount their legitimate grievances and interests.....but I hate Hamas in much the same way as I hate the KKK and similar groups, they are more responsible than virtually any other faction for the intractability of the conflict, and I strongly oppose efforts to 'legitimize' them until and unless they change their ways, especially regarding permanent borders and brainwashing (which most affect long-term peace prospects).
    Yeah, don't get me wrong. Fundamentalist Islam, and even moderate, has shockingly evil beliefs that they believe righteous. But lots of palestentian civillians have been killed too, intentional or not.

    And I'm not sure (though I COULD probably do homework) what the end game is for Israel. To break their spirit? Doesn't seem like it's going to happen anytime soon, and there's so much blood, SO much blood, on both sides, so much hate, that a peace between the two is a fart in the wind.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  9. #19
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeceptiveCreative View Post
    The IDF admitted that they use Palestinian civilians as human shields, too, you know.
    I was actually referring to Israeli targets of Hamas attacks, the 'human shield' accusation is somewhat more complicated as, while it does happen, I'm not sure how much of that is deliberate and how much is an effect of the dense population and small area in Gaza.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Hamas uses children as human shields. Israeli warns Hamas to vacate the civilian "shields." Hamas refuses to do so. Children die. Pictures and videos of Israeli atrocities are posted to the internet.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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