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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default How the Malaysian Airliner Tragedy Can Be Used to Distinguish Reagan From Obama

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/And...7/17/id/583406

    President Barack Obama should go on national television and call Russian President Vladimir Putin a killer, much like President Ronald Reagan did in 1983 when Russians shot down a Korean airliner, says Judge Andrew Napolitano.

    Reagan called the downing of the plane "an act of barbarism, born of a society which wantonly disregards individual rights and the value of human life and seeks constantly to expand and dominate other nations."

    Napolitano condemned Obama for continuing his schedule, including fundraising in Lower Manhattan, after the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down Thursday over eastern Ukraine. American officials have told journalists they believe Russian-backed separatists were responsible for the attack.

    I'm not saying that Ronald Reagan was a super-president who single-handedly defeated communism, saved the American economy from disaster, and raised the morale of an entire nation. I'm just saying that Reagan was a president who took a moral stance, compared to Obama who is a complete amoralist with no values, except those fed to him by his political pollsters, and who has no goal to attain beyond his own self-gratification.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/And...7/17/id/583406

    President Barack Obama should go on national television and call Russian President Vladimir Putin a killer, much like President Ronald Reagan did in 1983 when Russians shot down a Korean airliner, says Judge Andrew Napolitano.

    Reagan called the downing of the plane "an act of barbarism, born of a society which wantonly disregards individual rights and the value of human life and seeks constantly to expand and dominate other nations."

    Napolitano condemned Obama for continuing his schedule, including fundraising in Lower Manhattan, after the Malaysian Airlines flight was shot down Thursday over eastern Ukraine. American officials have told journalists they believe Russian-backed separatists were responsible for the attack.

    I'm not saying that Ronald Reagan was a super-president who single-handedly defeated communism, saved the American economy from disaster, and raised the morale of an entire nation. I'm just saying that Reagan was a president who took a moral stance, compared to Obama who is a complete amoralist with no values, except those fed to him by his political pollsters, and who has no goal to attain beyond his own self-gratification.
    You have to be dense to not recognize that these two incidents are fundamentally different from one another. If you want to pin the blame for the Malaysian Airlines incident on the Russians, then you must pin the blame for every act of the post-Operation Cyclone Mujahideen on USA, including 9/11 and 7/7.
    Backing a faction does not mean you condone every one of their actions. It would be different if Russia was in full control of the rebel faction. USSR was in full control in 1983 - they are not now.

  3. #3
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I never thought I would say this, but Obama could learn a lesson from de Blasio.

    Amid a controversy over the death of a Staten Island man following a confrontation with the NYPD, Mayor de Blasio on Friday abruptly postponed his departure for a family vacation in Italy, hours before he was scheduled to depart.
    http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/...icle-1.1871946

  4. #4
    Senior Member renaiziphonts's Avatar
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    Here's a piece of information that may condemn even more lives.
    Among the 317(?) killed in the flight, 100 were the most prominent AIDs researchers in the world. They were going to a convention to share their research, but the loss of these figures will set back AIDs research by decades. The result of destruction is always more destruction.

  5. #5
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Reagan was a great man even before he became president.

    "1926. Reagan begins work as a lifeguard at Lowell Park, near Dixon. He was credited with saving 77 lives during the seven summers he worked there."

    Ronald Reagan Timeline - NPR
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Reagan was a great man even before he became president.

    "1926. Reagan begins work as a lifeguard at Lowell Park, near Dixon. He was credited with saving 77 lives during the seven summers he worked there."
    He was simply doing what any lifeguard is hired to do. Was the E.R. surgeon who had saved over 500 lives greater than Reagan before he became president?
    Is the chemical engineer, farmer and mechanic less great for not directly having saved any lives?

    Greatness can only be attained by going above and beyond one's call of duty as a person and as a professional. A case could be made for Reagan being an exceptional lifeguard, just as one could be made for Lowell Park being frequented by a large amount people who didn't know how to behave in water. To be sure, you would have to compare him to his colleagues at the time.

  7. #7
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam
    Was the E.R. surgeon who had saved over 500 lives greater than Reagan before he became president?
    Depends on how many lives he lost. If the net number of lives saved is greater than 50, I would say that the ER surgeon is a great man as well.

    Is the chemical engineer, farmer and mechanic less great for not directly having saved any lives?
    It depends. Saving lives is just one criteria of greatness. There are great artists, engineers, and even politicians. The measure of greatness is in the degree to which your life furthered the progress of humanity.

    Does anyone have statistics on how many lives a lifeguard saves on average?
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #8
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    I also think the tone of politics have changed. People tended to have stronger, more immutable views on politics than they do now. Labeling is seen negatively now; Y and Z tend to be more PC than previous gens. It has its benefits and deficits.

    I personally wouldn't have a problem with a public denunciation, but I do know of people who would.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    You have to be dense to not recognize that these two incidents are fundamentally different from one another. If you want to pin the blame for the Malaysian Airlines incident on the Russians, then you must pin the blame for every act of the post-Operation Cyclone Mujahideen on USA, including 9/11 and 7/7.
    Backing a faction does not mean you condone every one of their actions. It would be different if Russia was in full control of the rebel faction. USSR was in full control in 1983 - they are not now.
    It's dangerous to speak of fundamental distinctions while you maintain such a superficial level of discussion.

    President Obama has a history of trying to build and maintain friendships with countries such as France and Russia, while at the same time alienating the US's oldest and staunchest ally, England.

    http://www.newsweek.com/how-obama-bo...iendship-73289
    Credit where it’s due: Barack Obama’s efforts to reset relations with Russia have worked exceptionally well. Thursday’s meeting between Obama and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev in the White House marks the highest point of Russian-U.S. relations since Bill Clinton traveled to Moscow to mark Victory Day back in 1995. After a decade of being at loggerheads, Moscow and Washington have found common ground on a raft of core issues, from sanctions on Iran to missile defense of Europe and a de facto halt to NATO expansion in Russia’s backyard.

    The problem, though, is that all this good will has been bought almost exclusively at Obama’s expense...

    And at the US's expense, as usual. I grew up during the Cold War and witnessed first-hand, without any historical third-hand perspective, how the US always had to give and give, while the USSR would take and take, starting perhaps with granting the USSR veto power in the UN as a condition of getting them to join.

    Fundamentally speaking, nothing has changed. Obama does not morally condemn Russia (which is just a another name for an old enemy) for anything. He only says there has to be a "credible" investigation with "no games," which is only so much hot air given Obama's weak political and moral stance. As for the question of who is responsible for the actions of Russian-backed separatists, this depends on Putin's response to the situation which will be very telling. The reason is not that Putin is great at marshaling rhetoric in his own self-defense, but the fact that he is so very bad at it. And particularly in this case, any attempt let's say to distance himself from the actions of Russian separatists who were armed and trained by the Russian army would be made on very shaky grounds. Or even worse, imagine Putin stating something like this, "If you want to pin the blame for the Malaysian Airlines incident on the Russians, then you must pin the blame for every act of the post-Operation Cyclone Mujahideen on USA, including 9/11 and 7/7." Putin may be lame, but he's not completely stupid.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #10
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    If Reagan's penis was on public display, there would be a line of Republicans miles long waiting to suck on it.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

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