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  1. #31
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    A mandated "living wage" is government interference. It means that the government knows better than the business owner what he/she can afford to spend on labor. That's not free market capitalism. Ideally, there should be no minimum wage.
    Agreed, and the same goes for weekends, holidays, the 40-hour work week, child labor laws, all work place safety regulations, and so on. Businesses always know best. I mean, look at what the airlines flying over Ukraine did. They were so careful with their employees' and customer's lives that they flew over a war zone to save a few bucks. It's a good thing no government stopped them from doing that.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  2. #32
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    Agreed, and the same goes for weekends, holidays, the 40-hour work week, child labor laws, all work place safety regulations, and so on.
    You think the government knows best; I think the market place should dictate what businesses do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus
    I mean, look at what the airlines flying over Ukraine did.
    Mistakes like this will cost this airline hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars; economic forces will encourage ethical behavior. Stupid businesses won't survive very long (the XFL) because they won't be able to compete.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    You think the government knows best; I think the market place should dictate what businesses do.
    No, I don't think anyone knows best. I just don't want power concentrated in the hands of a few, whether it's government or business. You only have a problem with the former. You're operating under the delusion that what is economically viable is always the best decision. That's great...if you're a sociopath.

    Mistakes like this will cost this airline hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars; economic forces will encourage ethical behavior. Stupid businesses won't survive very long (the XFL) because they won't be able to compete.
    I'm so looking forward to these airlines losing hundreds of millions. I'm sure they'll cry even more than the families that lost loved ones. If that isn't justice, I don't know what is.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  4. #34
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    There was also the pointless war that the USSR fought in Afghanistan that contributed to its demise. The United States was providing training and aid to the mujahideen. It seems that Osama bin Laden was a big part of the mujahideen. (as in the enemy of an enemy is a friend, until the first enemy is gone and the former ally is an... enemy???) U.S. military spending may have been a part of all that but who knows how much of a part? The money spent on all of that money was probably actually a waste of resources. Very little was spent on the infrastructure of the United States, which was permitted to decay.
    So... strong military, falling apart nation.
    Both Republicans and Democrats are perpetuating that disaster.
    As a result, they are both alike.
    It's hard to have confidence in either party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Reagan spent the money to build up the military. From 1981 to 1989, we increased military spending $806 billion. The total budget deficit during that same time period was $779 billion. We can debate whether or not that was wise (was it worth it to win the cold war?), but the fact remains that the strategy of defeating the USSR through massive military spending worked.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  5. #35
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist
    The money spent on all of that money was probably actually a waste of resources.
    I respectfully disagree. Reagan removed an existential threat without firing a single shot; it was well worth it when you consider the costs of "fighting" the cold war for decades. (Art Laffer estimates that the end of the cold war saved the US about $145 billion/year.)

    Very little was spent on the infrastructure of the United States, which was permitted to decay.
    That's been true of every president in my lifetime.

    So... strong military, falling apart nation.
    Both Republicans and Democrats are perpetuating that disaster.
    As a result, they are both alike.
    It's hard to have confidence in either party.
    I'm not sure you are aware of the economic prosperity that occured due to Reaganomics. Under Reagan, 19 million jobs were created; the ranks of the poor diminished as they joined the middle class. By 1989, those earning $50,000/year grew by 5.9 million. By the end of Reagan's presidency, the economy was almost 33% larger.

    By contrast, Obama has been a disaster. He's added $6 trillion plus to the debt while doubling the number of people on food stamps. He's empowered the NSA to spy on every American; he's using the IRS to target political enemies; he's encouraged and abetted illegal immigration for political gain and the nation is more divided than it's ever been in my lifetime.

    So, no....both parties are not equivalent.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  6. #36
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    You raise some good points but I disagree.
    Reagan was sending weapons to Iran and to Iraq, simultaneously.
    That was not good policy, in my opinion.
    He was sending military aid and giving training to thugs in Central America, especially El Salvador, which was ruled by 14 families. The death squads that the United States was helping with military training killed Oscar Romero, archbishop of El Salvador, while he was celebrating mass in a cancer hospital. Death squads were responsible for the rape and murder of three U.S. nuns and one lay missionary in El Salvador.
    That was not good policy, in my opinion.
    President Obama is a bad president, too.
    He promised to close Guantanamo and did not close it.
    He bailed out large banks and auto companies with billions of dollars, even when these companies were paying their executives exorbitant bonuses.
    He has gone overboard in the practice of murder by drone. Unfortunately, most of the drone victims are civilians.
    He and Congress mindless give military aid to Israel...
    Oh, wait, all of the presidents in my lifetime mindlessly give military aid to Israel...
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  7. #37
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist
    He was sending military aid and giving training to thugs in Central America, especially El Salvador, which was ruled by 14 families. The death squads that the United States was helping with military training killed Oscar Romero, archbishop of El Salvador, while he was celebrating mass in a cancer hospital. Death squads were responsible for the rape and murder of three U.S. nuns and one lay missionary in El Salvador. That was not good policy, in my opinion.
    According to Wikipedia: Foreign policy of the Ronald Reagan administration

    "The Reagan Administration repeatedly threatened aid suspensions to halt right-wing atrocities. As a result, the death squads made plans to kill the U.S. Ambassador."

    "The U.S. then threatened to cut off aid to the Salvadoran regime unless it made democratic reforms, which might have let the rebels regroup. As a result; a new Constitution was promulgated, the Armed Forces regulated, a "civilian" police force established, the FMLN metamorphosed from a guerrilla army to a political party that competed in free and fair elections, and an amnesty law was legislated in 1993"

    Compare Reagan's foreign policy of "peace through strength" to Obama's policy of "leading from behind". It's really no comparison; Obama's made a mess of Iraq; he's missed huge opportunities to support the democracy movement in Iran; he's undermined US credibility by setting red lines in Syria; we just deserted our embassy in Libya; Putin is reconstituting the Soviet empire, etc.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  8. #38
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    Was the military aid ever actually cut off???

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    According to Wikipedia: Foreign policy of the Ronald Reagan administration

    "The Reagan Administration repeatedly threatened aid suspensions to halt right-wing atrocities. As a result, the death squads made plans to kill the U.S. Ambassador."

    "The U.S. then threatened to cut off aid to the Salvadoran regime unless it made democratic reforms, which might have let the rebels regroup. As a result; a new Constitution was promulgated, the Armed Forces regulated, a "civilian" police force established, the FMLN metamorphosed from a guerrilla army to a political party that competed in free and fair elections, and an amnesty law was legislated in 1993"

    Compare Reagan's foreign policy of "peace through strength" to Obama's policy of "leading from behind". It's really no comparison; Obama's made a mess of Iraq; he's missed huge opportunities to support the democracy movement in Iran; he's undermined US credibility by setting red lines in Syria; we just deserted our embassy in Libya; Putin is reconstituting the Soviet empire, etc.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  9. #39
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    We are entrepreneurs because we have to be. I mean that's what made this country great anyway, but job security as a prole is a hahaha thing of the past for many people, especially if you plan on living above the poverty level.

    I have fantasies about small businesses toppling some of the big baddies.

    I think many Millennials are hard core liberals though so I think you're wrong about that, liberal is the new conservative.

  10. #40
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Tourist
    Was the military aid ever actually cut off???
    The Wiki article doesn't say so I assume it wasn't cut off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmotini
    We are entrepreneurs because we have to be. I mean that's what made this country great anyway
    That's exactly right. Entrepreneurship thrives when there are few regulations; under authoritarians like Obama and FDR, entrepreneurship suffers and we see high unemployment (over 90 million unemployed and 48 million on foodstamps), few high paying jobs created, and the lowest home ownership for those 35 yrs and under in recorded history (since 1982).

    I think many Millennials are hard core liberals though so I think you're wrong about that, liberal is the new conservative.
    I don't doubt this at all. They've been brainwashed to believe in a bunch of lefty nonsense at a very early age.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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