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  1. #21
    metamorphosing Flâneuse's Avatar
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    From the Reason.com article:
    "Millennials think somebody should do something to help improve the economy, but have less of an ideological preference as to how."
    "53 percent say they would support a candidate who was both socially liberal and fiscally conservative. (In fact, liberal millennials (60 percent) are significantly more supportive of such a candidate than conservatives (43 percent))**. Social issues, more than economics, tend to define their political labels and shape their political judgments."
    I've noticed this to generally be true of Gen Y'ers/Millennials. I find us to be both less concerned with and less likely to be certain of our economic views than our positions on social issues, and in many cases people my age will admit that they don't know much about economics. Even among Millennials who do have strong and definite economic views, from what I've seen they tend to be less sharply divided among themselves than when it comes to social issues, and are instead distributed more evenly along a continuum. I've known some Millennials who are economic centrists, some believers in laissez faire capitalism and some self-professed leftists, but from what I've seen when it comes to social issues they tend to fall into one of two camps - liberal or conservative - and most are socially liberal. I agree with Hard that the aggressively-promoted social conservatism within the Republican Party is often hugely repellent to these socially liberal average Millennials, no matter their stances on economic policy. Even here in a reddish-purple state like NC, we Gen-Y'ers see most social conservative-backed legislation and the state constitutional amendments banning gay marriage as senseless and backward, and many of us have a different moral framework (which I believe is influenced by humanism) than the more conservative previous generations.
    **For the minority of Millennials who hold socially conservative beliefs (pro-life, against gay marriage, etc.), those views often tie in with their religious and moral belief systems and have high priority in determining who they vote for, so it's not surprising that most of them wouldn't support a candidate whose social views didn't align with theirs, even if their economic views were similar.

  2. #22
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    I don't think an actual libertarian concerned about government spending who had an ounce of sense would believe that the Republican party is "better" at this. They talk about government spending because they aren't in power, just like the Democrats talked about it when they weren't power. It's a "vote for me instead" strategy.

    These "libertarians" support government spending, they just want it spent on certain things. Keep pep-pep and maw-maw's social security and medicare check coming and bring freedom to the Iraqis. (Put this together with decreased revenue [gosh, why did that happen?], and we have the origin of the deficit. )
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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  3. #23
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    I would agree @Tellenbach's list indicates some contradicting worldviews, and as someone born at the tail end of the X generation and the beginning of the millennial generation, I can say that people I know my age and younger tend not to fit neatly into one ideological group. I think the term liberaltarian is apt.

  4. #24
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit View Post
    I would agree @Tellenbach's list indicates some contradicting worldviews, and as someone born at the tail end of the X generation and the beginning of the millennial generation, I can say that people I know my age and younger tend not to fit neatly into one ideological group. I think the term liberaltarian is apt.
    What does that mean, though? Some things in there are inconsistent, but I just attribute that to lots of people not being deep thinkers, which isn't a quality unique to millennials. If you poll Americans as a whole on issues, I'm pretty sure you will find similar inconsistencies.

    Again, I support wealth distribution, so I am not a libertarian. But libertarianism usually makes sense. They might vote Republican, but claiming that Republicans are "better" at reducing government spending is intellectually dishonest, and they usually don't do that.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    What does that mean, though? Some things in there are inconsistent, but I just attribute that to lots of people not being deep thinkers, which isn't a quality unique to millennials. If you poll Americans as a whole on issues, I'm pretty sure you will find similar inconsistencies.

    Again, I support wealth distribution, so I am not a libertarian. But libertarianism usually makes sense. They might vote Republican, but claiming that Republicans are "better" at reducing government spending is intellectually dishonest, and they usually don't do that.
    To the contrary. republican presidents usually spend more.

    I support a fair market. Meaning no favors or subsidies for any one business or industry. I also support a very low tax rate for companies which stay in the US. I also support a fair living wage. More money in consumers' pockets (let's be honest, most will be irresponsible and spend surplus money) means more money spent on goods and services. The problem with libertarians is they want to have their cake and eat it too. You can't have it both ways and the unfettered market isn't going to spend money on improving the quality of life and the infrastructure, as many libertarians naively choose to believe. I am looking right at you, tellenbach.

  6. #26
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit
    You can't have it both ways and the unfettered market isn't going to spend money on improving the quality of life and the infrastructure, as many libertarians naively choose to believe. I am looking right at you, tellenbach.
    I would ask you to look at the tax revenues under Coolidge and Reagan. Both cut regulations and taxes and both saw an increase in tax revenue due to the economic growth. What is truely naive is to pretend that a $17 trillion debt won't have dire consequences. The interest on the debt payment alone (over $420 billion/year) is enough to pay for Obamacare and the Veterans Administration.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    I would ask you to look at the tax revenues under Coolidge and Reagan. Both cut regulations and taxes and both saw an increase in tax revenue due to the economic growth. What is truely naive is to pretend that a $17 trillion debt won't have dire consequences. The interest on the debt payment alone (over $420 billion/year) is enough to pay for Obamacare and the Veterans Administration.
    What's funny about your holy Reagan is that spending during his administration was higher than the average spending rate between the early 70's and the late 2000s.

  8. #28
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit
    What's funny about your holy Reagan is that spending during his administration was higher than the average spending rate between the early 70's and the late 2000s.
    Reagan spent the money to build up the military. From 1981 to 1989, we increased military spending $806 billion. The total budget deficit during that same time period was $779 billion. We can debate whether or not that was wise (was it worth it to win the cold war?), but the fact remains that the strategy of defeating the USSR through massive military spending worked.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Reagan spent the money to build up the military. From 1981 to 1989, we increased military spending $806 billion. The total budget deficit during that same time period was $779 billion. We can debate whether or not that was wise (was it worth it to win the cold war?), but the fact remains that the strategy of defeating the USSR through massive military spending worked.
    I thought you libertarian types prided themselves on being isolationists. That tends to be a big talking point in Libertarian candidates' talking points, does it not?

  10. #30
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Conduit
    I thought you libertarian types prided themselves on being isolationists. That tends to be a big talking point in Libertarian candidates' talking points, does it not?
    National defense is a valid role for the government. Libertarians want the government to obey the Constitution.

    "National defense is the priority job of the national government. Article One, Section Eight of the Constitution lists 17 separate powers that are granted to the Congress. Six of those powers deal exclusively with the national defense—far more than any other specific area of governance—and grant the full range of authorities necessary for establishing the defense of the nation as it was then understood. Congress is given specific authority to declare war, raise and support armies, provide for a navy, establish the rules for the operation of American military forces, organize and arm the militias of the states, and specify the conditions for converting the militias into national service."

    A Constitutional Basis for Defense
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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