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  1. #11
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowPage View Post
    Is this about youth in a particular country?
    There are multiple meanings for people wanting to wait until they're older for marriage.
    And selfishness is hardly one I'd expect to be amongst them. Not that it would be a problem, even if it were.
    But yea... the change in government benefits of marriage, the change in the economic situations people are in, the shift in cultural pressures (as previously mentioned) are just some of the possible reasons...
    It doesn't matter from what angle you try to spin it or how you want to skin the cat. The core of it will always come down to selfishness, which is driven by survival. (or at least what we think we need to survive).

  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I don't understand that chart.

    Most millenials have not yet turned 32, so how can we accurately determine the percentage that got married within that age range? Is it simply a projection?
    They simply computed the percentage of people in the 18-32 age bracket who were married in 2013 resp. 1997, 1980, 1960.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #13
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    Marriage is seen as a religious institution and given all kinds of negative associations in social media and entertainment. Then there are the all the disadvantages in getting married for men, which have been touched on here already and are understandably are a turn off.

    I am ambivalent about marriage myself to be honest. I see some positives, such as the association with children that women seem to give it. But my beliefs and gender create little motivation.

    Wanting a family doesn't mean you should have to get married. I wouldn't have any concern at all about marriage rates declining as long as fertility remained stable.

    Unfortunately, this is not the case.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    What does it MEAN?

    1. in general: it means people are getting married because they want too, not because they feel they have too.
    2. for this chart specifically: it probably means more people are waiting longer before getting married (less under 32).
    3. this chart might be skewed by focusing on licensed marriages and doesn't account for common law / life partnership.

    a better data scheme would need both life partnerships and marriages across multiply the age ranges, so we'd able to determine which shifts we need to account for.

    also: wives have cooties, DON'T DO IT.

  5. #15
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    It seems like a lot of milennials are having trouble making the jump to independence in a culture where their economic future is uncertain. This might be a side effect of that. These days it seems to take quite a bit more focus to get the traction to launch into financial independence, and I can't blame young people for not wanting to tether themselves to each other without some level of security in place first- and that security is elusive.

    Personally- as a Gen Xer I got married at 22 and we didn't have two pennies to rub together for quite some time. But I've never really been what you might call typical of my generation.

  6. #16
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    They simply computed the percentage of people in the 18-32 age bracket who were married in 2013 resp. 1997, 1980, 1960.
    Ah... got it...
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I wouldn't have any concern at all about marriage rates declining as long as fertility remained stable.

    Unfortunately, this is not the case.
    I doubt there is a connection between fertility and marriage. There might be one between marriage and birth rates. However, using marriage as a tool for population control seems inconceivable in a free society.

    Overpopulation is a serious problem. But, apparently, marriage is not a deciding factor in solving it:

    The University of Nebraska publication Green Illusions argues that population control to alleviate environmental pressures need not be coercive. It states that "Women who are educated, economically engaged, and in control of their own bodies can enjoy the freedom of bearing children at their own pace, which happens to be a rate that is appropriate for the aggregate ecological endowment of our planet." The book Fatal Misconception by Matthew Connelly similarly points to the importance of supporting the rights of women in bringing population levels down over time.

  8. #18
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I doubt there is a connection between fertility and marriage. There might be one between marriage and birth rates. However, using marriage as a tool for population control seems inconceivable in a free society.

    Overpopulation is a serious problem. But, apparently, marriage is not a deciding factor in solving it:

    Birth control seems to be a reliable factor in slowing population growth. That's why population growth is slowing in some countries like the U.S. and Europe, and is growing in countries where there are lots of missionaries preaching against birth control.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #19
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Something else to keep in mind: a lot of younger people are growing up in broken homes and probably aren't rushing to get married until they feel VERY certain that they need too.

    That's the other thing....you don't really NEED to get married today. It offers some benefits, sure, but it also has a feck load of drawbacks most of which can be side stepped by simply choosing to cohabitate rather than marry.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I doubt there is a connection between fertility and marriage. There might be one between marriage and birth rates. However, using marriage as a tool for population control seems inconceivable in a free society.

    Overpopulation is a serious problem. But, apparently, marriage is not a deciding factor in solving it:
    Africa and Asia need to lower their birth rates, which are in places over 4. Europe and North America are under 2, so need to raise them.

    Thus, I disagree that Western countries should be promoting birth control - governments should be doing their best to create a climate that is conducive to raising more children.

    There is no such thing as a free society, but if there was, it would certainly look a lot different to countries with CCTV everywhere, government control of education, and censorship of the media, internet and individuals' political rights. Nobody is free, it is completely relative.

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