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  1. #131
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Society View Post
    how???
    The building complex you buy into has certain rules - most have a clause where if they have a non-stop chronic issue, the last option they'll employ is to actually have you move out and sell the place. It's part of the deal when you buy.

    Now, I don't think they're that puritanical over here, but each board is a culture onto its own and Im not sure yet what ours is like (we haven't moved in yet). The point is - I was raised to consider these things non-stop and find it reasonable that others expect this shit from me.

    And tbh, that makes me furious to have to be this paranoid about how my naked body might just offend or affect others for just daring to exist.
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  2. #132
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    So in Germany, the saunas were co-ed, butt naked.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  3. #133
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    It was awesome.


    So, ya know, the nipple was meant to be free.

    I'll be holding the "Free the Nipples!" Protest this week, in honor of our independence.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  4. #134
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    It was awesome.


    So, ya know, the nipple was meant to be free.

    I'll be holding the "Free the Nipples!" Protest this week, in honor of our independence.
    How many women will be in attendance?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #135
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Default Should women be allowed to be topless in public?

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    How many women will be in attendance?
    Ummm

    Edit: like, probably a lot. Whenever I go up to random women and mention exposed nipples is exposed Women's rights, they always walk away and start dialing a number.

    Probably calling more women.

    It's weird though, cuz it's always a 3 digit number.
    Last edited by johnnyyukon; 07-01-2014 at 07:25 AM. Reason: um
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #136
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elocute View Post
    I'm all for female liberation, but their nipples tend to have more effect on men than pecs have on women.
    Just because we're more used to seeing them in the media and in situations where it's socially acceptable for men to go shirtless. Like @kyuuei has said elsewhere in this thread, some of men's immature reaction to seeing exposed breasts would lessen when they got used to seeing them in the same social areas where women see exposed pecs.
    ~ g e t f e s t i v e ! ~


    EJCC: "The Big Questions in my life right now: 1) What am I willing to live with? 2) What do I have to live with? 3) What can I change for the better?"
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  7. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Because of the double standard. It is a situation that illustrates it perfectly. Most women are raised with the concept that not only are they responsible for their own sex drive ( the repercussions are immense: pregnancy, dishonor, increased risk of std, rape etc), they are responsible for the sex drive of the men around them (maybe coz they have less penalties for using it?).

    Somehow my freedom gets curbed because im expected to not only be the adult but also mommy the rest that never had to learn the same thing. And it is my fault of it goes wrong. When i get up in the morning there are three people in my closet as i choose my outfit: me, my mother and society.
    There are heaps of double standards in society, but sometimes they serve a purpose. Equality for the sake of equality is not a good reason to change anything.

    It all depends where your priorities are, but it sounds like you are overthinking how you dress. Also a few basic rules aside (like dress neatly and don't show too much cleavage) I think there's a lot more freedom for females in how they can dress than males, especially in formal and professional settings. Orchestras are a good example of this; the men have a fixed dress code but the women do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Why do you get the bliss of being the only one to decide and i dont? And im not talking about specific circumstancesnsuch as work attire which you could avoid by changing jobs - im talking being in my own home or garden and having too many windows around so that i can *never* escape that expectation that i never agreed to in the first place and is there by virtue of my gender.

    Why do i not get a place and a moment where im not judged on the attractiveness of my body and the way im currently displaying it? It is exhausting to feel policed like that. And im kind of done babysitting other peoples sex drived tbh. If you dont like it or dont trust yourself, that is seriously not my problm. I dont badger you in covering yourself up coz i might get horny and distracted either.
    Every day I wake up I'm worried about whether what I wear or I myself will be attractive to women, how they will perceive me and whether I will be allowed to be myself. You are not the only one who has concerns, but the difference is that I don't expect everyone else to change just to make it easier for me. And that you would leave your job simply because you disagree with the dress code is very disconcerting.

    Men are sexual beings. You are going to be judged on your physical appearance and your choices in hairstyle and clothing; and it is incredibly hypocritical to complain about this as women are no different - as you yourself have suggested.

  8. #138
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    I still feel awkward when I am shirtless somewhere other than a beach or pool.

  9. #139
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    There are heaps of double standards in society, but sometimes they serve a purpose. Equality for the sake of equality is not a good reason to change anything.

    It all depends where your priorities are, but it sounds like you are overthinking how you dress. Also a few basic rules aside (like dress neatly and don't show too much cleavage) I think there's a lot more freedom for females in how they can dress than males, especially in formal and professional settings. Orchestras are a good example of this; the men have a fixed dress code but the women do not.



    Every day I wake up I'm worried about whether what I wear or I myself will be attractive to women, how they will perceive me and whether I will be allowed to be myself. You are not the only one who has concerns, but the difference is that I don't expect everyone else to change just to make it easier for me. And that you would leave your job simply because you disagree with the dress code is very disconcerting.

    Men are sexual beings. You are going to be judged on your physical appearance and your choices in hairstyle and clothing; and it is incredibly hypocritical to complain about this as women are no different - as you yourself have suggested.
    Actually, i didn't say that I would leave a job for that - what I meant was, this is something I consciously agree to when I take the job. I get a say in it. These expectations that are put on me for being female - something I didn't choose - I very much object against, yes.

    As for double standards - I'm all for getting rid of all of em, pick one you don't like, I'll back you, honest to god. Equality means the freedom to be different without fear of retribution for my part. So yes, equality is something I'll always strive for. I want to celebrate our differences, respect peoples opinions and choices to disapprove, without it necessarily infringing on the other people's ability to be themselves without repercussions. Without the expectations that get put on people, just to appease others. As for your own judges in your life, tell them to take a hike. Seriously. You don't owe them a thing. They are entitled to their preferences, but that's where it stops. They do not get to shame you into hiding all that you are, nor set some kind of norm or standard you're to 'pass'. And those that do demand this from you are often too busy blaming others so that nobody will notice they themselves don't live up to that standard, seriously.

    I personally have no problem with men looking - as I stated before, you guys and your shoulders are a good view to me as well and I see you as sexual beings myself. But Ive personally experienced what happens once desensitisation sets in - it really isn't that big a deal. Boyfriends asked me repeatedly to run around naked in the house all the time, then when I do, they ask me after a month to put something on they can take off. The fact of the matter is that you just cannot constantly be titilated - you have a life to lead, a living to make and other concerns to deal with. Similarly, I cannot constantly act like a stripper when I take clothes off or put them on, or come on to you with body language - I have things to take care off, so really, while the first time of me bending over to stuff laundry in the laundry machine might be arrousing, it won't be when Im actually focused on getting the laundry done for the umpteenth time. Life gets in the way like that. It's why men start wondering about other women's breasts which they don't get constant access too (and women do similar stuff of course) in their marriages, instead of actually reconnecting with one another and taking the time to rediscover and seduce each other again.

    Taking 'the big deal' out of this taboo would allow this kind of desensitisation to happen culturally. And that point, hopefully, we get to a point where people can enjoy the view, have their preferences (I like hers better) without being complete drooling idiots in the process. Similarly, it might just finally get people over the fact that other peoples appearances are somehow their business - judging fat people for daring to flash some flab coz they 're fucking melting in the sun or skinny people for daring to 'flaunt' their thinness and telling them to eat a burger already.

    At what point do we *get* that someone else's appearance is NONE of our business - safe perhaps in finding a genetically and psychologically compatible partner (and when are we going to keep it in that area alone, instead of valuing someone entirely based on their appearance)? That our sense of aesthetic or whatever emotional trigger it trips is your own goddamn responsibility and not the person in front of you who has to anticipate your response to what God has naturally given to them? It's exhausting to keep track of, retardedly superficial and ridiculously easy to turn into a tool for power abuse and malicious justification. Not to mention that mating isn't everything in life, and neither is attraction (god, the irony of this coming from an sx-dom )

    And yes, I will advocate for this coz it is harmful to our society and it goes beyond showing a nipple. It's a symptom of something that seriously needs to be addressed already.
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  10. #140
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    There are heaps of double standards in society, but sometimes they serve a purpose. Equality for the sake of equality is not a good reason to change anything.
    Inequality for the sake of inequality is a much worse reason to keep things the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    It all depends where your priorities are, but it sounds like you are overthinking how you dress. Also a few basic rules aside (like dress neatly and don't show too much cleavage) I think there's a lot more freedom for females in how they can dress than males, especially in formal and professional settings. Orchestras are a good example of this; the men have a fixed dress code but the women do not.
    You are correct. I have commented on this elsewhere more than once. My personal view of equality would correct this, and either give men more freedom in what they wear, or require women to abide by the restrictions levied on men (e.g. fixed dress code for the orchestra).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Every day I wake up I'm worried about whether what I wear or I myself will be attractive to women, how they will perceive me and whether I will be allowed to be myself. You are not the only one who has concerns, but the difference is that I don't expect everyone else to change just to make it easier for me. And that you would leave your job simply because you disagree with the dress code is very disconcerting.
    Really? I am surprised you are that concerned about the opinions of others. I've never worried about making myself attractive to men or how others will perceive my dress and appearance. I almost cannot be other than myself. I dress to my own tastes, and to my own standards for the occasion: what I see as professional, formal, etc.

    The big exception, of course, was my time in the military when I had to wear a uniform, but I didn't mind that because the uniform was decent looking and reasonably comfortable/practical. I actually liked NOT having to worry about what to wear every day. I would object strongly to a dress code that imposed hardships on women vs. men, e.g. requiring women to wear skirts and pantyhose in the middle of the winter; or makeup, when men get to keep their skin free of chemicals.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

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