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  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    no one is saying you men need to learn not to be aroused when spotting an attractive topless chick. that's not what it's about.
    How about...

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    You don't solve problems by tackling the biggest ones first. Sorry, but usually the proven methods that work show the opposite--baby steps in small directions.

    Yeah, dudes will always look. They certainly did in Uganda. But I noticed--not nearly as much as they would have here in America. They were desensitized to it. Like breast feeding moms and ladies in the jungle were NOT the same as girls shaking it in a club. They were two different sets of boobs. It did not diminish their interest, but it put a realistic, less holy-grail approach to it all. And I found that refreshing.
    ...and even more blatantly:

    Quote Originally Posted by Eluded_One View Post
    When I first read this thread, I thought the same, until I made a better attempt to see it in a woman's perspective. Similar to @Jaguar said, it deals with equal rights issues. However, it goes fairly deeper. I believe Socrates noted, that the relationship between man and women have the same interest as master and slave. Society should have moved beyond this point by now.

    Breast arousal is mainly due to an evolutionary response, the contrasting scenario can also be undone through evolution.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    and others have mentioned that we like seeing attractive shirtless dudes too...but...we can refrain from attacking them.

    why should there be a double standard?

    just asking out of curiosity. i don't particularly care to go topless. i already feel completely naked in a bikini.
    If I attacked random women on the street I wouldn't be here right now. Most men have control over their sexuality; what angers me is making it look like I have a learned problem which needs to be "fixed". People here have probably forgotten, but I have no problem with women being topless in situations where its practical to be, like swimming.

    I don't believe that any of the women here would walk around topless generally even if they could, yet they wouldn't be happy just to be able to swim and breastfeed.

    This is why (combined with the comments I've linked) I have to think there is something else behind the drive.

  2. #112
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    People here have probably forgotten, but I have no problem with women being topless in situations where its practical to be, like swimming.

    I don't believe that any of the women here would walk around topless generally even if they could, yet they wouldn't be happy just to be able to swim and breastfeed.

    This is why (combined with the comments I've linked) I have to think there is something else behind the drive.
    . I mean.. This is what the entire thread is about. Men aren't allowed to not wear shirts into clubs, or restaurants, or shopping centers, etc. etc. We aren't talking about how we should go shopping in Walmart without a shirt on. We're talking about being allowed to be topless to the same extent as current male standards--like the beach, walking to your mailbox first thing in the morning in your own yard of your own home, swim holes, running/walking on trails, etc.

    We're talking about the fact that, in situations and scenarios where men typically go topless, women are still seen as slutty or wrong for disrobing as well.

    And no one is saying it's a WRONG thing, necessarily, that men are super turned on by boobs in America and elsewhere... I can't speak TOO much for other countries, but here in America it really does feel like men act like little boys still about boobs. They gawk at the beach, and pretty much let their tongues hang out. It isn't just that people look and stare--everyone looks and stares.. but the open, blatant gawking without any control over one's self or composure is what makes it so ..childish. And thus creepy.

    We're just saying that if it was more 'normal' to see someone at the beach without a shirt, or working out without a shirt, they wouldn't gawk so much. It'd become MORE normal eventually. Moreso than currently.. because America is just a prudish country, and always has been. It isn't that we'd 'fix' anything, but that's nature. If you saw your 300 lb neighbor practicing the hoola hoop every morning when you left for work.. eventually you'd stop watching him hoola hoop. You'd just say, "Oh, that dudes' hoola hooping again.." and it would be normal after a while. It isn't like the dude doesn't expect people will take note, or even stare initially.. but eventually it will be normal. And his priorities aren't what they think of him.

    To put this another way... If you have a wife. And she shows you her boobs. And then she covers them. The boobs are still sexy. If she's making you breakfast after sex, and she didn't bother to put a shirt on, yeah her boobs are still hot, or attractive... or whatever.. but you're not going to have sex with her and get INSTANTLY THAT turned on RIGHT then just because her boobs are still exposed. She's your wife. You're used to seeing them. They're nice, and attractive, but not necessarily sexual ALL the time. Sometimes they're just there.
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  3. #113
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    How about...
    @kyuuei isn't even asking you to not thinking tits are hot in that quote. There's a difference between desensitization and lack of arousal. Like literally everyone has said before, women can get turned on by a shirtless dude. But also everyone is desensitized to shirtless dudes, because it's considered normal for them to be shirtless (unless it's a funeral like @Amargith said haha)

    I don't believe that any of the women here would walk around topless generally even if they could, yet they wouldn't be happy just to be able to swim and breastfeed.
    This isn't even a good way to refute having the option of being shirtless public areas. Some women WOULD walk around topless. I know multiple women that complain and wish they could just walk around shirtless like guys can without it being considered public indecency. You can't get into every single girl's mind.
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  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    @kyuuei isn't even asking you to not thinking tits are hot in that quote. There's a difference between desensitization and lack of arousal. Like literally everyone has said before, women can get turned on by a shirtless dude. But also everyone is desensitized to shirtless dudes, because it's considered normal for them to be shirtless (unless it's a funeral like @Amargith said haha)
    Try turning up to work without a shirt on then. It isn't considered normal let alone appropriate for men to be shirtless in most situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    This isn't even a good way to refute having the option of being shirtless public areas. Some women WOULD walk around topless. I know multiple women that complain and wish they could just walk around shirtless like guys can without it being considered public indecency. You can't get into every single girl's mind.
    Why should there be when there's no need for them? Just because a few women want to walk around topless? That's not a good reason.

    This brings me back to what I said before about priorities.

  5. #115
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    i don't think most women would walk around topless even if it were legal everywhere. just like with men there would be places where it would be socially acceptable and other places where it wouldn't be. the recent women walking around topless in NY were protesting. i know i don't want topless people of either sex at work in an office or restaurants, etc.. now if someone is at the beach or on a hike in the mountains then i don't think it's a big deal.

  6. #116
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Try turning up to work without a shirt on then. It isn't considered normal let alone appropriate for men to be shirtless in most situations.


    jesus christ. it's obvious that showing up to work without a shirt is considered inappropriate. the difference is that women can't go to the beach shirtless, where practically every single man is shirtless, without being written up for "public indecency." the difference is that women can't even take off their shirt outside during a hot summer's day like men can without being written up for "public indecency." THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT ANYWHERE A MAN CAN APPROPRIATELY BE SHIRTLESS A WOMEN CAN'T FOR REASONS THAT ARE COMPLETELY ARBITRARY. "oh, it makes men get aroused" - bub, women get aroused from men being shirtless too. it's called SEXUAL ATTRACTION. "well then don't complain when women get harassed" - ah yes, blaming women for their own harassment, perfect. "breasts are just inappropriate in public" - because we made it this way. "most women wouldn't want to be topless most of the time anyway" - of course, because getting rid of the "public indecency" bullshit will mandate that all women must be topless.

    Why should there be when there's no need for them? Just because a few women want to walk around topless? That's not a good reason.
    Yes it is. You know, the majority of men go about their day without going topless too. And yet when they feel like taking off their shirt (in a setting where it's socially appropriate), it's totally fine for them to.
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  7. #117
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    fine, i think we all know where this is heading...




    (we should have just allowed them to be topless! this is pinching my nipple!)

  8. #118
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    See, even if a man shows up at work or at a funeral without a shirt...it would get him social scorn but i doubt he gets written up by the cops.

    Can we start with the illegality and make it socially condemnable only first plz?

    Btw, the second it gets mandated that women should be naked, imma be the first one out to protest in a burka

    Can my body and fashion choices not be legislated by law plz? At what point do i get to be the only one in the morning to pick out my clothes? Seriously, any 5 year old can do it, we dont need the help. Or the finger pointing. Its just no one elses business.
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  9. #119
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    How about...



    ...and even more blatantly:





    If I attacked random women on the street I wouldn't be here right now. Most men have control over their sexuality; what angers me is making it look like I have a learned problem which needs to be "fixed". People here have probably forgotten, but I have no problem with women being topless in situations where its practical to be, like swimming.

    I don't believe that any of the women here would walk around topless generally even if they could, yet they wouldn't be happy just to be able to swim and breastfeed.

    This is why (combined with the comments I've linked) I have to think there is something else behind the drive.
    none of that makes any sense. it's like you didn't actually read what you responded to.
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  10. #120
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Why should there be when there's no need for them? Just because a few women want to walk around topless? That's not a good reason.
    I guess that means being a nationalist-racist chauvinist should be disallowed, seeing as very few people want to be one and most others find them highly distasteful.

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