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View Poll Results: In developed Western countries, is patriarchy still alive?

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  • Yes

    11 52.38%
  • No

    10 47.62%
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  1. #11
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Part of my point is that women are as much to blame as men for the continued survival of patriarchy.
    Yes I agree. It comes from both ends.
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  2. #12
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    There's some of it left, yeah. But OTOH I often feel that men are subject to the same troubles, except we don't call it patriarchy but "being bullied by your boss" or "not being promoted".
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  3. #13
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    If a patriarchy exists, then surely it must be the patriarchy that is responsible for gifting women everything that they enjoy. And the inverse...if there really was a patriarchy of men, then it wouldn't really make sense for us to allow women have legal and reproductive privileges over men? Why allow women to have any power at all, as what would we get out of it?

    Wait...

    White, middle class feminists = nerdy university girls trying to create an identity for themselves seeing they can't find a mate.

    I can't bring myself to take you people seriously when men have to record a "yes" just to avoid rape charges.

  4. #14
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    to be clear, we are talking about the theory that the collective of our subconscious minds are communicating via cultural memes to form a world wide conspiracy behind everyone's back for the sole purpose of perpetuating male domination and female victimization?

    i am just going to say, if this is real... that is fucking awesome! sure our transcendent hive mind is a chauvinist pig, but fuck it, it's a species wide transcendent hive mind!


  5. #15
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magic Poriferan View Post
    A higher value on masculinity and higher privileges for those who possess it still pervades these countries.
    Some traits (like competitiveness) that are considered "masculine" are valuable, not because society made an arbitrary decision to value them, but because they really do lead to success. People who go after what they want are more likely to get what they want than people who don't. That's not a social construct. That's just how the universe works.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #16
    Freaking Ratchet Rail Tracer's Avatar
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    It's still alive, not as strong as it was back in the olden days, but still alive.

  7. #17
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    I'm still working on understanding the 'developed' part.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Are you your mothers' daughters or your fathers' sons?

  9. #19
    ^He pronks, too! Magic Poriferan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Some traits (like competitiveness) that are considered "masculine" are valuable, not because society made an arbitrary decision to value them, but because they really do lead to success. People who go after what they want are more likely to get what they want than people who don't. That's not a social construct. That's just how the universe works.
    There's some truth to this, but nothing's that simple. You might have heard that selfishness wins within groups, and selfish groups always lose to unselfish groups. That too is over-simplification, but is a nice rule of thumb. Some of the exceptions to it also work against the idea that always trying to get yourself ahead is always the valuable trait. One sociopath in an altruistic group is more successful than two sociopaths in an altruistic group, because two sociopaths are too successful at screwing each other up. And so and so on...

    I think some of what's considered masculine might happen to lead to some definitions of success, but does masculinity corner the market on successful traits? Is nothing considered feminine useful? That would be hard to believe, wouldn't? So, when you select based on these archetypes, you're either throwing the baby out with the bath water or taking the wheat along with all the chaff.

    Of course, the second problem here is what I mentioned about masculinity points being automatically given to someone of the male sex. Is that fair if it is to include all the traits considered masculine? Maybe being competitive is conducive to success, but would it be right to just assume a male would have more of it than a female?

    Layers of problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    We've had versions of this thread 100 times...

    Stop complaining about men and go get laid.
    This comment certainly helps convince me there is no patriarchy.
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  10. #20
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    If a patriarchy exists ... Why allow women to have any power at all, as what would we get out of it?
    uh. Like, a lot actually. Like "Here, here's a tiny taste of power to appease you so that you falsely think you have power in your life and don't bug me all the time or try to mutiny or riot." It's a pretty standard control tactic, and works like a charm.

    I think it still exists.. but it's so diminished now that I can function in normal everyday life with just some cowardly douches making stupid youtube comments and drunken texts annoying me at times. I don't feel like men control me, or that I'll be raped the instant I walk out of my door.. I've certainly been to patriarchal countries, and there really is no comparison--we just don't have that in most of America if you choose not to live in it or to feed the beast.

    Wait...

    White, middle class feminists = nerdy university girls trying to create an identity for themselves seeing they can't find a mate.
    I'm sure they could get a mate .. but that's not really what we're talking about here. We're not talking about feminists. Feminists didn't make up patriarchy. It's a well-defined term with its own boundaries and stipulations outside of feminism.
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