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  1. #1
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Default The State of Iraq is Gone

    Gen. Michael Hayden: 'The State of Iraq As We Know It Is Gone'

    Iraq has been split into three separate tribal units, and there's no turning back. The US under the Obama administration made some bad decisions three years ago which have left the state of Iraq where it is today.

    The US wants to give humanitarian aid to parts of this region. What for? To fuck it all up again?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #2
    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Gen. Michael Hayden: 'The State of Iraq As We Know It Is Gone'

    Iraq has been split into three separate tribal units, and there's no turning back. The US under the Obama administration made some bad decisions three years ago which have left the state of Iraq where it is today.
    He may have, but he wasn't the only one.



    I would love to say it doesn't matter on focusing on the initial invasion is fruitless because it's in the past, but I'm pretty sure that we're going to find ourselves in a similar mess in some other country (not necessarily in a Republican administration) in a few decades, when the policy wonks in the upper levels of some future presidential administration decide it's important for us to Get Over our hangups about Iraq (this is assuming we will still have the capability for something like that, and that's a big if). So few people bother paying attention to this shit or even knowing the basic facts about other countries.... if you polled Americans who knew whether Iraq was a majority Sunni or Shia country, the results probably wouldn't be that high. Unless, of course, we no longer have the capability of such things. I think Iraq was the beginning of the end for the American Empire, and I doubt Obama or Romney or Ron Paul or Abraham Lincoln anyone could have undone that colossal fuckup.

    I don't know that I'm really passionate about politics. I could never work up the appropriate amount or rage for Romney or McCain, or, even in 2008 appropriate amount of admiration for Obama (even though I voted for him). I loathed Bush, though.

    In short, history marches on, and no one ever learns a fucking thing. I'm sure there are naive people out there who think we now "learned our lesson" from Iraq, but the scary truth is most people know even less than I do about what's been going on there these past few weeks (and I'm sure I don't know that much). It's being framed as a "partisan" issue, which is also obscuring the fact that a lot of prominent democrats like Hillary Clinton supported Operation Iraqi Freedom. War in Iraq was not one of the "important" issues up for debate in the 2004 election. By 2008, everyone was distancing themselves from it.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


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    The one time that I agree with Obungler.
    Now if we could only close our borders & make the swap to natural gas within 3 years rather than remaining dependent upon middle eastern oil.

    Adios Iraq; Thanks for the memories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2 View Post
    He may have, but he wasn't the only one.



    I would love to say it doesn't matter on focusing on the initial invasion is fruitless because it's in the past, but I'm pretty sure that we're going to find ourselves in a similar mess in some other country (not necessarily in a Republican administration) in a few decades, when the policy wonks in the upper levels of some future presidential administration decide it's important for us to Get Over our hangups about Iraq (this is assuming we will still have the capability for something like that, and that's a big if). So few people bother paying attention to this shit or even knowing the basic facts about other countries.... if you polled Americans who knew whether Iraq was a majority Sunni or Shia country, the results probably wouldn't be that high. Unless, of course, we no longer have the capability of such things. I think Iraq was the beginning of the end for the American Empire, and I doubt Obama or Romney or Ron Paul or Abraham Lincoln anyone could have undone that colossal fuckup.

    I don't know that I'm really passionate about politics. I could never work up the appropriate amount or rage for Romney or McCain, or, even in 2008 appropriate amount of admiration for Obama (even though I voted for him). I loathed Bush, though.

    In short, history marches on, and no one ever learns a fucking thing. I'm sure there are naive people out there who think we now "learned our lesson" from Iraq, but the scary truth is most people know even less than I do about what's been going on there these past few weeks (and I'm sure I don't know that much).
    Kid; you ought to recognize that billionaire Progressive Globalists are stealing the wealth from America's economy & will leave the US in a state of complete collapse by year 2020. BTW you can rest assured we've already seen the last US republican president, Progressive Globalists bought the democratic party so you're stuck with progressive liberal puppets until the collapse.

    Keep immigrating/importing more democrat party voters across our open borders & voting for more free stuff but the needy of the world had best plan upon seeking handouts from all the other generous nations of the world. LOLOL

  5. #5
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    According to Dick Cheney, the military came up with a plan to keep 13,000 troops in Iraq; Obama rejected that plan. Next, the military came up with a 10,000 troop plan which Obama also rejected. Obama countered with a 3,000 troop plan which the Iraqis rejected. Now, Obama can tell everyone that it was the Iraqis who didn't want us there; see how that works?
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrderOfTheCaelifera View Post
    Kid; you ought to recognize that billionaire Progressive Globalists are stealing the wealth from America's economy & will leave the US in a state of complete collapse by year 2020. BTW you can rest assured we've already seen the last US republican president, Progressive Globalists bought the democratic party so you're stuck with progressive liberal puppets until the collapse.

    Keep immigrating/importing more democrat party voters across our open borders & voting for more free stuff but the needy of the world had best plan upon seeking handouts from all the other generous nations of the world. LOLOL
    Yawn. You didn't engage or refute anything I actually posted, and just start going on about Mexicans. OK. Last time I checked, this thread wasn't even about immigration. Living la vida loca, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach
    According to Dick Cheney, the military came up with a plan to keep 13,000 troops in Iraq; Obama rejected that plan. Next, the military came up with a 10,000 troop plan which Obama also rejected. Obama countered with a 3,000 troop plan which the Iraqis rejected. Now, Obama can tell everyone that it was the Iraqis who didn't want us there; see how that works?
    Perhaps, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dick Cheney
    I think they're in the last throes, if you will, of the insurgency."
    You're not seeing the big picture. Maybe they are both wrong!
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

    Visit my Johari:
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  7. #7
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msg_v2
    You're not seeing the big picture. Maybe they are both wrong!
    Or maybe, this is just another screw-up from a president who screws up everything else. When Joe Biden commented on Iraq back in 2010, he said pretty much what Dick Cheney said.

    "I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government," said Biden.

    "I spent -- I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences." Biden
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

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    Theta Male Julius_Van_Der_Beak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Or maybe, this is just another screw-up from a president who screws up everything else. When Joe Biden commented on Iraq back in 2010, he said pretty much what Dick Cheney said.

    "I am very optimistic about -- about Iraq. I mean, this could be one of the great achievements of this administration. You're going to see 90,000 American troops come marching home by the end of the summer. You're going to see a stable government in Iraq that is actually moving toward a representative government," said Biden.

    "I spent -- I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences." Biden
    Meh, I'm getting too old and apathetic for this kind of thing. I'm more interested in discussing the war itself than Obama or Bush, really. After all, Vietnam was Johnson's thing.

    I think that if we had 100,000 troops in Iraq, we'd still have problems today.
    [Trump's] rhetoric is not an abuse of power. In the same way that it's also not against the law to do a backflip off of the roof of your house onto your concrete driveway. It's just mind-numbingly stupid and, to say the least, counterproductive. - Bush did 9-11


    This is not going to go the way you think....

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  9. #9
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    I don't see how this could have been avoided. We either stay there, dumping billions and getting our boys shot at/fucked up by insurgents or we leave and the power vacuum invites all the raisin cakes to come in and wreck shit.

    Difference between a Turd sandwich and a Giant Douche near as I can tell. The only difference is how much money and how many of our boys do we want to get fucked up in the process.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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    We (namely the US gov't and military; sorry non US members of this forum) never should have been there in the first place. Bush and Obama are equally to blame for the state of things now. Let's not play the blame game at this point, as it serves little purpose then to make a few leftists and rightists feel better about their own misguided ideologies.

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