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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    I agree with some things there and disagree with others.

    We agree that forcing European concepts on Middle Eastern people won't work - or at least hasn't worked. But in order for it to work there has to be a new generation born with a fresh start. The Iraq that existed wasn't given that kind of chance. Those who are born into freedom will be used to freedom. If for example they are born in the United States (their parents having come to the US from Iraq), then a possible clash of values would occur via strictly religious parental teachings designed to obviate any Western cultural influences.
    What I find so ironic is that you guys see no problem in literally forcing your worldview on other people yet claim it to be the most tolerant of all. It is up to the people of X country how they want to live in their country. Not you. If they want to come and live in your country - then, you can tell them how to live.

    The above doesn't just apply to the Middle East, if it did I wouldn't be so passionate about it. I resent how America bullies Western countries into ideological conformity and floods us with trash.

  2. #32
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    Thank you US for fucking up the world one more time. US state has long become a puppet for corporate interests and treats its people as employees.
    Hey we didn't fuck up the world, just an entire country.

    I'm the United States and I do what I waannt!!
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Focus on your own internal problems first, of which you have talked about often on the forum (and much of which I agree with).

    Besides, wars are expensive. Aren't you a conservative? Who is going to be paying for this and what do you personally get out of it?



    Theocratic dictatorships are the most natural form of government for that part of the world. Have you ever been to an Islamic country before and observed the people there? Even in the more "moderate" ones, religion is a big part of their life. Most of these peoples were ruled by the Ottomans relatively happily until quite recently.

    Be honest, this is your attempt to make American interests appear benevolent. It is true the Iraqis need some external governing authority, and I think for stability some kind of imperialist/colonial system is required long term, but that authority must be Muslim. American involvement in the region will always be resented for this reason.
    Define "natural form of government."
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #34
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Default The State of Iraq is Gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    What I find so ironic is that you guys see no problem in literally forcing your worldview on other people yet claim it to be the most tolerant of all. It is up to the people of X country how they want to live in their country. Not you. If they want to come and live in your country - then, you can tell them how to live.

    The above doesn't just apply to the Middle East, if it did I wouldn't be so passionate about it. I resent how America bullies Western countries into ideological conformity and floods us with trash.
    Hey I agree, but can you leave me out me this.

    I didn't vote for "let's invade random country x" guy. Even if I did, presidents are like the head of a hydra these days.

    And no country, to my knowledge, has ever been forced into democracy. It's so stupid. Those fucking pictures of women in burkas with voting ink on their finger. What a fucking joke.

    I'm pretty sure that's not what many wars we start are about anyway, many are about this thing: $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Amirite?
    Last edited by johnnyyukon; 06-21-2014 at 10:12 AM. Reason: weewee
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Define "natural form of government."
    No, endless arguing about definitions isn't constructive. It is kinda obvious what I am talking about.

    That this is all you could come up with says a lot.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    That this is all you could come up with says a lot.
    You leave a lot unstated. I'm not assuming anything or reading between any lines. But a "natural form of government" defined as that which is most predominant in the world is a random and arbitrarily defined idea.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Hey I agree, but can you leave me out me this.

    I didn't vote for "let's invade random country x" guy. Even if I did, presidents are like the head of a hydra these days.

    And no country, to my knowledge, has ever been forced into democracy. It's so stupid. Those fucking pictures of women in burkas with voting ink on their finger. What a fucking joke.

    I'm pretty sure that's not what many wars we start are about anyway, many are about this thing: $$$$$$$$$$$$$. Amirite?
    It works better for them. These people were ruled by the Ottomans for 500 years and Iraq as a nation was invented by the British (at least they had the foresight to create some kind of monarchy though).

    Americans in general seem to have trouble understanding that not all of humanity's greatest achievements have occurred in an environment of republicanism. There are other ways of living, which are far more effective for uniting large numbers of highly clannish people who base their identity on religion.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    It works better for them.

    Americans in general seem to have trouble understanding that not all of humanity's greatest achievements have occurred in an environment of republicanism. There are other ways of living.
    Right! Was the ability to light a fire invented in an environment of republicanism?

    Is this thread turning into the usual generalizations about Americans?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Right! Was the ability to light a fire invented in an environment of republicanism?

    Is this thread turning into the usual generalizations about Americans?
    Well bad luck, you seem to fit many of them.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Well bad luck, you seem to fit many of them.
    In what way exactly?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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