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  1. #71
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    I usually stay away from topics like these because I never want to touch a gun ever and I haven't really decided my stance on guns, but here's my $0.02.

    I dunno. It's hard to say for me. Having a gun in my own house to keep myself and my family protected does sound nice, but at the same time if everyone had a gun in their home the perpetrators would just be that much more prepared for whatever they were planning on doing.

    Also, this would mean that ANYONE would be able to access a gun. I'm already pretty paranoid myself, and the rate of mass shootings in America has been increasing iirc, so I'm not sure how comfortable I'd feel if I knew every citizen I pass by owns a gun. I'm already pretty suspicious of people around me for no reason (damn 6 wing) so giving all of these people a gun just puts me off. Not that the whole country has to cater to my feelings or whatever. But I mean if the Newtown shooter took guns from his mom then I dunno...it could create a lot of chaos. It's easy to conceal a shotgun in, say, a car. It just seems like enabling a bunch of other people to cause damage. And if these are exclusive to homes then there's no hope for people that didn't bring concealed handguns with them. But concealed handguns seems even worse, enabling more rapists, robbers, etc.

    It's a big conundrum.
    Everyone in this country does have access to a gun, unless you have a criminal background or have been in a mental institution. Even then, it's very easy to buy one off of somebody that's not on record. Even though if you get caught that's a major felony.

    Anyway, it's oddly easy to just go into a gun store and by an Assault Rifle. You can't buy a fully automatic one, just semi. Unless you have major credentials.

    People in this country that grew up around guns, it's no different than owning a 4 wheeler or playing ping pong, as far as their comfort level. Lots of kids get .22 rifles or beebee guns when they're like 9. And after a while owning a gun, shooting it, cleaning it. You get very comfortable, it's not scary.

    Yes guns can kill, but most people I know that own them are very responsible. They keep them in a safe, and are very wary of where the muzzle is pointed at all times (front of the gun).

    So, since everyone I know is extremely responsible, I don't walk around scared. Most people don't carry guns on them. Most everyone I know at least has a gun in the house. I have a license to carry concealed, but don't always do it. Anyone with that license can go just about anywhere with it except near schools and federal buildings. But you can walk in a grocery store with it. There's lots of youtube videos where some armed robber is threatening someone with a gun and a citizen pulls out his and shoots, or backs him down. Lot's of videos, or news reports of homeowners getting shot at, and then the homeowner getting their gun and shooting back, killing or injuring. these are very rare though.

    The reasoning that I can gather is that because the bad guys can get access to guns, that is one reason homeowners have them.

    If you are a convicted felon with a gun on you, you're going back to prison for a very long time.

    The case with the Newtown shooting is mind blowing. How can a mother with such an obviously troubled son give him access to that weapon cash? Same with a lot of the other shootings. These are also rare, and murder sprees, guns or no, go on in other countries.

    If guns were outlawed would there be less deaths? Probably. Though there's plenty of statistics backing both sides of the argument.

    I'll prolly have more to say when my brain is working better.

    Feel free to ask away.
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  2. #72
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    @Mole @Chanaynay I'm a strong advocate for banning guns but at this moment of time when anyone can get their hands on a gun the regular Joe needs to be able to get his hands on a gun

    Guns are special in that they can kill more people in a period of time then a hammer can but if we are going to deal with the problem of people murdering others we need to look into the human psychosis, what trigger someone to murder a bunch of people with a gun. Is it because they want to watch the world burn or is it because they have been bullied verbally/physically/mentally (not being able to take care of themselves as homeless and being mocked by others)

    To truly take care of the problem we as a country would need to re-write the system, make it more socialist, help those in need, befriend those that are socially awkward in other words have a country that claims to be predominant Christian/religious actually live by their ideals and teachings.

  3. #73
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Just thought I should clarify that I'm not advocating for banning guns.

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I find this a bit of a fallacy.. I mean, technically 90% of the people you know currently DO have access to guns. They can go out, get one, and have it right now. They choose not to most of the time, but they have access for sure. Even if all of them bought guns, perps would do what they always do. Crime goes on, with guns or without.. the statistics don't add up to it all. I'm not convinced banning all guns stops gun violence. Nor am I convinced that having guns curbs gun violence. I can only speak on my personal opinion and experience.. and in that experience, I felt less safe and had more scary situations in areas and situations where the people I knew did not have at least one person with a weapon on them at all times. I grew up around them, seeing them, and it wasn't a big deal. Respect comes with it all.
    I guess the bold part is the difference. Since most choose not to, then it's much easier for criminals to count on that. So forcing everyone to keep a gun in their house would force criminals to plan accordingly. But I can't get in the mind of a criminal really, and if they plan for that now then will giving everyone a gun really scare them away? Dunno, I'm still confused.

    I have a feeling robbers and rapists don't bother to get CHLs, for what it's worth.. but the REAL issue behind that kid stealing his mother's weapons is a lack of accountability. If it were up to me, there'd be far stricter laws on accountability than there would be on trying to keep guns regulated any other way. In the military, if you went more than arm's length from your weapon and it wasn't tied up or you didn't actively ask someone to watch it, your ass was grass. If civilians took that level of respect and responsibility seriously, there wouldn't be kids stealing guns. Lock it up (and I don't mean stick it in a drawer (though I do caveat that if you're sleeping you could have it in the drawer beside you in your house), or carry it on you. If we were allowed to carry it openly, so people could see, but also have accountability constantly that way, no one who purchased a gun would have it stolen. So far as I'm concerned, if you have weapons and a safe that isn't bolted down and it's stolen, you're just as responsible. You better make that robber work for that weapon way harder than he'd ever desire.
    The problem is, in this situation, wouldn't you want your child to know where the guns are too so he could protect himself? I'm not sure what their history was like but I think it's reasonable to say she would have given him access unless she knew for a fact he was going to break. But yeah, I agree with you that in general accountability is important. I guess the problem is that giving a gun to every home would blur the areas of trust between the family members/members of the household.

    I'm just the opposite as you though.. I feel more comforted seeing people carrying weapons. I dislike a crowd of people uneducated about weapons, just lazing through life, and the second someone pulls a box cutter out of their pocket they all go bananas.
    Opposites attract?

    Terrible things are going to happen... Whether we take everyone's guns away or not. Whether we limit types of guns or not. I can't deny that, and I don't think anyone will. But I also know that criminals tend to go about things the illegal way either way.. while having a system that allows guns certainly makes it easier, it's easier for alcoholics to get alcohol and ruin their families lives and I'm not calling for prohibition to start again anytime soon.
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  4. #74
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanaynay View Post
    Just thought I should clarify that I'm not advocating for banning guns.
    I'll also add, for now, that a LOT of people do it as a sport. Sport shooting targets and such.

    It's very difficult to shoot a firearm accurately. And pistols are the most difficult. It's fun and challenging. It can take years to master. There's all kinds of communities of shooters like the IPSC. thousands of expert shooters that have never shot a human.
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  5. #75
    untitled Chanaynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Everyone in this country does have access to a gun, unless you have a criminal background or have been in a mental institution. Even then, it's very easy to buy one off of somebody that's not on record. Even though if you get caught that's a major felony.

    Anyway, it's oddly easy to just go into a gun store and by an Assault Rifle. You can't buy a fully automatic one, just semi. Unless you have major credentials.

    People in this country that grew up around guns, it's no different than owning a 4 wheeler or playing ping pong, as far as their comfort level. Lots of kids get .22 rifles or beebee guns when they're like 9. And after a while owning a gun, shooting it, cleaning it. You get very comfortable, it's not scary.

    Yes guns can kill, but most people I know that own them are very responsible. They keep them in a safe, and are very wary of where the muzzle is pointed at all times (front of the gun).

    So, since everyone I know is extremely responsible, I don't walk around scared. Most people don't carry guns on them. Most everyone I know at least has a gun in the house. I have a license to carry concealed, but don't always do it. Anyone with that license can go just about anywhere with it except near schools and federal buildings. But you can walk in a grocery store with it. There's lots of youtube videos where some armed robber is threatening someone with a gun and a citizen pulls out his and shoots, or backs him down. Lot's of videos, or news reports of homeowners getting shot at, and then the homeowner getting their gun and shooting back, killing or injuring. these are very rare though.

    The reasoning that I can gather is that because the bad guys can get access to guns, that is one reason homeowners have them.

    If you are a convicted felon with a gun on you, you're going back to prison for a very long time.

    The case with the Newtown shooting is mind blowing. How can a mother with such an obviously troubled son give him access to that weapon cash? Same with a lot of the other shootings. These are also rare, and murder sprees, guns or no, go on in other countries.

    If guns were outlawed would there be less deaths? Probably. Though there's plenty of statistics backing both sides of the argument.

    I'll prolly have more to say when my brain is working better.

    Feel free to ask away.
    Well, from your POV, I could understand why guns are viewed as more safe and less scary. Thanks for shedding some light on that at least.

    Yeah, I get guns are accessible to almost everyone, but I just don't feel safe at the idea of mandating a gun in everyone's house since that could enable a lot of people who may not have the access to do anything otherwise. I dunno, it sounds good on paper but in practice I feel like it will create a lot more mess.

    I guess the problem is that you never really know what will happen until it gets put into practice, and then we have to work from there.
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  6. #76
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    Default If guns are a social or individual issue and personal safety is in question

    If guns are a social issue, yet we're trusting elite officials to vote on whether they should stay or go rather than trusting the people to decide,


    If the people could just as quickly and effectively decide on laws, and determine when the needs of the many outweigh that of the few,


    If we're discussing gun laws and the validity of the people owning guns, while the people do not decide what they own, but politicians do,




    Then why are we trusting political elites with control over all the tanks and nuclear weapons?

  7. #77
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nihilogen View Post
    Then why are we trusting political elites with control over all the tanks and nuclear weapons?
    Because whoever is trusted with such control is, by virtue of being trusted with it, a political elite... unless you want to make them accessible to everybody, in which case the end is nigh.

  8. #78
    this is my winter song EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    I would like to see gun threads banned as their main purpose on Typology Central is trolling.
    Their main purpose is to discuss guns and gun-related issues/topics. However, if they create a response, in you, that is similar to the emotional response that one can have when they are trolled, then I would suggest that you no longer post in gun threads. Similar to how, when you are annoyed by a particular forum member to the point that it hurts your forum experience, it would be best to put them on ignore and not engage with them. That way you will have a more pleasant forum experience overall, with less stress.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I'm just the opposite as you though.. I feel more comforted seeing people carrying weapons. I dislike a crowd of people uneducated about weapons, just lazing through life, and the second someone pulls a box cutter out of their pocket they all go bananas.
    So much this.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Because whoever is trusted with such control is, by virtue of being trusted with it, a political elite... unless you want to make them accessible to everybody, in which case the end is nigh.
    Then why do these weapons exist at all? If the average citizen can't be trusted with them, then no one can, otherwise it is discrimination.

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