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  1. #21
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Well, most of us are conditioned that harming others is wrong from childhood - it is part of what makes our society possible. How do you overcome that kind of ingrained response within the split second it takes for the assailant to turn that weapon against you without actual professional training (and even then, people still struggle with their first kill, from what I hear, and either panic and shoot too quickly or freeze and get somebody killed by inaction)
    It's quite amazing (or horrifying depending on the circumstances) what fear and strengthened reflexes (via muscle memory & training) allows one to do when they are in danger. When your middle brain takes over (fight or flight), all that prefrontal jazzmatazz is out the window. Morals, while useful in everyday life management, are out the window, whether you like/want it or not. Just ask anyone who's had a near death experience involving a "moral dilemma" It's the aftermath that people trip on and that's a road that you can't really predict, until it happens.

    I think your concern that the assailant will/can turn the weapon against you is oversimplified. Here's why:

    1) Who's to say that the assailant won't be "WTF! this bitch has a gun!" and be equally stunned
    2) Disarming an armed person isn't exactly "easy" when all you have to do is take 1 step back (a natural reaction anyone would have to someone lunging at them) to avoid most scenarios, at least initially. Allowing you to overcome analysis paralysis, if any.
    3) Upon seeing an armed person, a criminal, especially if they are out "gunned" hehe, may just decide to GTFO.

    Assuming a fight over a weapon occurs and you lose your weapon

    3) Does it matter if they brought a knife to a house invasion, only to find a armed person, who is then disarmed and they then use that weapon to complete the crime? In the end it's still an armed house invasion.
    4) Unless you have a particular phobia does it matter whether you are then stabbed (you didn't have a gun) or shot (because you were disarmed), but survive?
    5) If you die in the process, it's all kinda moot whether it was by knife or gun.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #22
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    *puts gun down*
    *slowly steps away*

    Isn't there a bigger chance of me missing it and just incapacitating him?
    It's kind of iffy.

    There are several ways that getting shot can kill or incapacitate. One would be if the wound went untreated and got infected. But that would take awhile. Shooting the pelvis or thigh and breaking bones can immobilize someone, but you don't really know for sure how far the bullet will penetrate or if it will change course after hitting bone or just stop. Getting shot in the head usually stops people pretty quick. Another way is loss of blood. Severing a major artery such has the one in the upper arm or the femoral artery in thigh/groin cause especially rapid blood loss. Yet another way is to take out the heart. But even when the heart stops a person may be able to continue fighting for 15 or 20 more seconds, which could be enough to do serious damage to you. Damaging the lungs will also reduce the ability to fight, although it might not take effect instantly.

    I guess the bottom line is that there is no particularly safe way to shoot somebody.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  3. #23
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    It's quite amazing (or horrifying depending on the circumstances) what fear and strengthened reflexes (via muscle memory & training) allows one to do when they are in danger. When your middle brain takes over (fight or flight), all that prefrontal jazzmatazz is out the window. Morals, while useful in everyday life management, are out the window, whether you like/want it or not. Just ask anyone who's had a near death experience involving a "moral dilemma" It's the aftermath that people trip on and that's a road that you can't really predict, until it happens.

    I think your concern that the assailant will/can turn the weapon against you is oversimplified. Here's why:

    1) Who's to say that the assailant won't be "WTF! this bitch has a gun!" and be equally stunned
    2) Disarming an armed person isn't exactly "easy" when all you have to do is take 1 step back (a natural reaction anyone would have to someone lunging at them) to avoid most scenarios, at least initially.
    3) Upon seeing an armed person, a criminal, especially if they are out "gunned" hehe, will may just decide to GTFO.

    Assuming a fight over a weapon occurs and you lose your weapon

    3) Does it matter if they brought a knife to a house invasion, only to find a armed person, who is then disarmed and they then use that weapon to complete the crime? In the end it's still an armed house invasion.
    4) Unless you have a particular phobia does it matter whether you are then stabbed (you didn't have a gun) or shot (because you were disarmed), but survive?
    5) If you die in the process, it's all kinda moot whether it was by knife or gun.

    I personally think it's just safer to have a dog, at that point - especially one that has been properly trained. It makes inexperienced thieves think twice as well, and at least you're not facing the situation alone. Meanwhile, 'pulling the trigger' doesn't have to be lethal, it requires the same amount of training and in the moment all you have to do is bark out a command or even a hand signal will do. The problem is when you pull a gun on them and they are experienced enough to notice that you aren't. That they'll use your apprehension in pulling the trigger to get closer to you to disarm you because they *bank* on you not wanting to shoot. It's an escalation of the situation, which means they're more likely to use it on you, if they do get a hold of it. And if they didn't bring their own weapons, chances are they too are not looking to hurt someone but just get away - you just put a weapon in their hand in a situation where they're feeling cornered...chances are much more likely they'll use it in that scenario. If they brought their own, you have to wonder just how your experience in navigating a double gun scenario will hold up against theirs.

    Also, I guess - with the sugar cube - I started out with a mindset of 'weapons in general' - not particularly thinking of guns and home invasions (guess my Euro roots are showing ). And as such, I was thinking more of street harassment or robbery. The point is, when it comes to defending your own body, you're better off not bringing actual weapons they can use on you, so the situation cannot escalate that way and you can make a clean get-away when presented with a chance - and the sugar cube can give you that distraction.

    Anycase, I didn't mean to start an anti-gun debate. It was just meant as a post in passing.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  4. #24
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkgraffiti View Post
    Canada made it.
    You must not be paying attention. Last week a rifle-wielding nut in Moncton, New Brunswick shot 5 RCMP officers, 3 of them fatally.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  5. #25
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Anycase, I didn't mean to start an anti-gun debate. It was just meant as a post in passing.
    I at no time, thought you were doing so

    FTR I am not, nor is the girl in the video saying you should carry a weapon with you in public, we are talking about home defense.

    Texas:15 Year Old Defends Self, Sister; Shoots Burglar




    After the burglars gained entry he used his fathers AR-15 and shot one of assailants several times (no one died) They fled and were captured. BTW his father is a sheriff deputy which is why his son knew where the guns were and how to use them.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #26
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Yeah, my bad, I didn't watch the vid due to background noise here


    ...still prefer a dog loyal to only me though *mumbles*
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #27
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    ...still prefer a dog loyal to only me though *mumbles*
    Dogs are wonderful.

    Well, usually. There are some really stupid and irritating ones here and there.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Please alert me if anybody comes up with a new argument.

  9. #29
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    There is no such a thing as an original thought. You didn't get the memo?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #30
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    You seem to be confusing guns with bulletproof vests. Bullets don't magically stop other bullets
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

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