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  1. #211
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    Curious, not being a troll here (at the moment)... What are Americans so afraid of that they need to be armed all the time? Not even just handguns, but semi-automatic or automatic rifles?

    I wonder if they're afraid of all the other people with guns...
    Well, it's an important question. I can't answer what other Americans think but I'm beginning to feel it's much like the police being more militarily provisioned and armed than ever before. The reason? They have to keep up with how armed the population is. That's a realistic way of thinking. wouldn't the military also think that way too? But doesn't it sound insane? That answer will also depend on who you ask and where they're standing in America. But they don't need a reason and "the government" answer is a cop out. They have them because they can.
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  2. #212
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    But, really, this isn't how it works.
    You don't need a reason to keep a right.
    You need a reason to restrict a right.
    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceecee View Post
    Well, it's an important question. I can't answer what other Americans think but I'm beginning to feel it's much like the police being more militarily provisioned and armed than ever before. The reason? They have to keep up with how armed the population is. That's a realistic way of thinking. wouldn't the military also think that way too? But doesn't it sound insane? That answer will also depend on who you ask and where they're standing in America. But they don't need a reason and "the government" answer is a cop out. They have them because they can.
    Pun intended?

    I think there is alot more behind militarization of police than the greater availability of guns in the US, relative to other nations. Perhaps the same mentality that drives individuals to want guns makes the police see them as the go-to solution for most police situations, rather than something to have at the ready when other approaches fail.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  3. #213
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  4. #214
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Civilians owning that kind of weaponry is ridiculous. What scenario are people imagining they need an automatic rifle for? The post office is late delivering your tax return? You have to fill out too much paperwork? Donald Trump is going to become your president? If you're that afraid of your government then get involved and make a difference. Democracy will never be perfect, but it only has a chance of functionality if there's sufficient input.

    But by all means, continue to believe that you need a gun, because he has a gun, and now you need a bigger gun than him, buy oh wait his gun is faster, you need an even bigger gun... That's a wonderfully logical and predictably effective strategy for creating a true, free democracy.

    Don't even bother jumping down my throat to accuse me of being a pacifist hippy either, because I'm not.
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  5. #215
    in-game Gamine's Avatar
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    Nothing about needing to be armed all the time screams democracy to me.

    Could you imagine the incredible progress that could be achieved if a fraction of the "but I love my gun" hysteria was funneled into economic investment? Education? Reform on the militarization of police forces?

    My mind isn't going to be changed on this topic, and if you're of the "but I love my gun" camp, neither will yours. Good luck with continuing to secure your "freedom."
    "Beware Those Who Are ALWAYS READING BOOKS" - Bukowski

  6. #216
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamine View Post
    Civilians owning that kind of weaponry is ridiculous. What scenario are people imagining they need an automatic rifle for? The post office is late delivering your tax return? You have to fill out too much paperwork? Donald Trump is going to become your president? If you're that afraid of your government then get involved and make a difference. Democracy will never be perfect, but it only has a chance of functionality if there's sufficient input.

    But by all means, continue to believe that you need a gun, because he has a gun, and now you need a bigger gun than him, buy oh wait his gun is faster, you need an even bigger gun... That's a wonderfully logical and predictably effective strategy for creating a true, free democracy.

    Don't even bother jumping down my throat to accuse me of being a pacifist hippy either, because I'm not.
    I agree with everything you're saying and all I've asked all the questions you are asking. There is something pathologically wrong in this country when it comes to guns but the issue is so convoluted and deep, I don't know that anyone can find the answer - I don't think there really is one.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.

  7. #217
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Everyone on the left complains about gun control in the US meanwhile Obama adds another oppressive regime to the countries to which we export arms.

    Here's who buys the most weapons from the U.S. - CNNPolitics.com
    Take the weakest thing in you
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  8. #218
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    The principle of liberal democracy is the limitation of power. For instance, liberal democracy limits guns to the military for national defence, and to the police to enforce the law.

    And to put guns in the hands of citizens maximises power rather than limiting it to the military and the police.

    And to claim guns are equal rights is a perversion of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    But worse the claim guns are equal rights is a delusion designed to undermine liberal democracy in favour of maximising the power of life and death in the hands of citizens.

    I am a Justice of the Peace and my forebears disarmed the militias on 25 May, 1687, creating the King's Peace. But the Americans not only got rid of the King, they also got rid of the King's Peace.

    It is plain at a deep psychological level Americans have a bad conscience about this and kid themselves they have a right to bear arms when no such right exists.
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  9. #219
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    And to put guns in the hands of citizens maximises power rather than limiting it to the military and the police.
    What a perversion of the idea of limiting power.

    You're maximizing the power of the government and limiting the power of the citizens.

    At least be honest.
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  10. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    What a perversion of the idea of limiting power.

    You're maximizing the power of the government and limiting the power of the citizens.

    At least be honest.
    You don't understand or support the principle of liberal democracy.

    This is odd as you live under a liberal democratic Constitution which is based on the limitation of power, principally, the separation of powers.

    I feel embarrassed having to explain liberal democracy to you. You must have noticed your government is severely limited by the separation of powers. It is often portrayed on American television and indeed it sometimes puts the American government into gridlock.

    By comparison, we also live under a liberal democracy but we have better processes for limiting political gridlock.

    But let me be absolutely frank with you: it is obvious many Americans have a paranoid view of their own liberal democratic government. This has no basis in reality and is entirely psychological and emotional. But it is highly dangerous, not only to your fellow Americans but also to your friends and allies.

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