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  1. #11
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    My momma always said 'Weapons of any kind can be used against you in an attack as you are likely going to be more hesitant than them to use it due to your moral code of not harming other people, whereas they'll use that hesitation to obtain the weapon and turn it on you.'

    She recommended keeping an old-fashioned, hard sugar cube in your coat jacket to put between your knuckles and lash out with: it cuts worse than a knife, leaves very distinct scars that are very painful and take a long-ass time to heal and if you drop it, it dissolves into powder making the obtaining of the 'weapon' by the other party that much harder.
    Momma's give good advise

    If you practice with your defense, whatever it is you decide to use, it will become muscle memory over time. If something ever happens you will reflexively, do whatcha gotta do, there is no thought and consequently no hesitation.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Momma's give good advise

    If you practice with your defense, whatever it is you decide to use, it will become muscle memory over time. If something ever happens you will reflexively, do whatcha gotta do, there is no thought and consequently no hesitation.
    True, but how do you practice shooting a living, breathing human being?

    I purposefully didn't make the argument of 'well, sure, it's a great equaliser on the surface, but clumsiness, idiocy, taking things lightly instead of being responsible and having enough respect for what a gun can do and being sloppy with that thing can lead to massive inequality wrt who ends up being the victim of that kind of behaviour.' because you can teach that stuff, for sure (yet it never is 100 percent as it depends on the person's personality and values)

    You can learn and train how to aim, take care of, respect and handle a gun, no doubt. But if your moral code is to protect people and not harm them, you'll still hesitate to shoot a fellow human being. They don't say the first time is the hardest without reason, after all. And that is time your attacker can use to turn it upon you. You see it in 'green' gun men all the time in movies - it's a frequent plot line for a reason.

    The benefit of the sugar cube is that nobody gets killed or even seriously injured, while the acute pain of it does give you the time to get away from your attacker. That and he won't see it coming due to its small size. Element of surprise.
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  3. #13
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    True, but how do you practice shooting a living, breathing human being?

    I purposefully didn't make the argument of 'well, sure, it's a great equaliser on the surface, but clumsiness, idiocy, taking things lightly instead of being responsible and having enough respect for what a gun can do and being sloppy with that thing can lead to massive inequality wrt who ends up being the victim of that kind of behaviour.' because you can teach that stuff, for sure (yet it never is 100 percent as it depends on the person's personality and values)

    You can learn and train how to aim, take care of, respect and handle a gun, no doubt. But if your moral code is to protect people and not harm them, you'll still hesitate to shoot a fellow human being. They don't say the first time is the hardest without reason, after all. And that is time your attacker can use to turn it upon you. You see it in 'green' gun men all the time in the movies - it's a frequent plot line for a reason.
    If it comes down to me or an assailant, I'm going to pick me over him/her every time. Same would go for my wife/daughters.

    If me and you were having coffee and talking, and I suddenly reached out and tried to, I dunno, caress your cheekbone or something "lame" like that, but quick and dart like. I'd bet that you'd instinctively lean back, or dodge my incoming hand. Same concept.

    I find it difficult to comprehend why you are having difficulty understanding muscle memory. You are quite smart Could it be that this conversation is meant to go somewhere else?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    If it comes down to me or an assailant, I'm going to pick me over him/her every time. Same would go for my wife/daughters.

    If me and you were having coffee and talking, and I suddenly reached out and tried to, I dunno, caress your cheekbone or something "lame" like that, but quick and dart like. I'd bet that you'd instinctively lean back, or dodge my incoming hand. Same concept.

    I find it difficult to comprehend why you are having difficulty understanding muscle memory. You are quite smart Could it be that this conversation is meant to go somewhere else?
    Coz it's not about muscle memory - it's the idea of harming another human being. Even with a criminal, it would stop me from doing this. I might shoot his thigh though...but even that I'd be too slow in deciding. If someone else was in danger, I'd probably react faster though - harming others tends to knee-jerk me into action. If however the threat wasn't absolute or very clear, I'd still give the benefit of the doubt because I don't want to hurt someone else.

    And that is the vital difference between me and the potential assailant.

    ...and I'm not sure where it would be going, tbh. I don't live in the US, so this isn't really a concern to me, or an issue that causes me to flare up or anything - I have plenty of other causes already
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  5. #15
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Coz it's not about muscle memory - it's the idea of harming another human being. Even with a criminal, it would stop me from doing this. I might shoot his thigh though...but even that I'd be too slow in deciding. If someone else was in danger, I'd probably react faster though - harming others tends to knee-jerk me into action. If however the threat wasn't absolute or very clear, I'd still give the benefit of the doubt because I don't want to hurt someone else.

    And that is the vital difference between me and the potential assailant.

    ...and I'm not sure where it would be going, tbh. I don't live in the US, so this isn't really a concern to me, or an issue that causes me to flare up or anything - I have plenty of other causes already
    I thought that's where this conversation was going. Perhaps it was going there the whole time and I was being dense. In either case. I see your point, not everyone can/will do what they gotta do when it comes to action, for various reasons.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #16
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    This thread sure could use some gun porn...




    You're welcome.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #17
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Well, most of us are conditioned that harming others is wrong from childhood - it is part of what makes our society possible. How do you overcome that kind of ingrained response within the split second it takes for the assailant to turn that weapon against you without actual professional training (and even then, people still struggle with their first kill, from what I hear, and either panic and shoot too quickly or freeze and get somebody killed by inaction)
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  8. #18
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I agree with you, this is a really good point.

    I disagree with concealed carry, which is overkill, and don't think I would feel much safer if I had a gun where I live. But if I lived in an area where crime was higher my perception would be a lot different. It wouldn't even have to be an automatic, just a gun that was quicker and less cumbersome than a bolt action rifle (pretty much all we are allowed). And as you point out, this provides the most leverage to people who can't would struggle to defend themselves physically, which anti gun bleeding hearts overlook.

    The police simply cannot protect you from a determined, vengeful person and even less group of people.
    First a disclaimer: I do not know this guy or what agency he works for, I just think he's awesome.

    Officer "Smith": Thoughts From Behind the Badge: HELP! POLICE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    True, but how do you practice shooting a living, breathing human being?

    I purposefully didn't make the argument of 'well, sure, it's a great equaliser on the surface, but clumsiness, idiocy, taking things lightly instead of being responsible and having enough respect for what a gun can do and being sloppy with that thing can lead to massive inequality wrt who ends up being the victim of that kind of behaviour.' because you can teach that stuff, for sure (yet it never is 100 percent as it depends on the person's personality and values)

    You can learn and train how to aim, take care of, respect and handle a gun, no doubt. But if your moral code is to protect people and not harm them, you'll still hesitate to shoot a fellow human being. They don't say the first time is the hardest without reason, after all. And that is time your attacker can use to turn it upon you. You see it in 'green' gun men all the time in the movies - it's a frequent plot line for a reason.
    This is why you have things like Simunition and use-of-force simulators.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    I might shoot his thigh though...but even that I'd be too slow in deciding.
    Severing his femoral artery would be almost as likely to kill him as a head shot.
    1w2-6w5-3w2 so/sp

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  9. #19
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD45T-2 View Post
    Severing his femoral artery would be almost as likely to kill him as a head shot.
    *puts gun down*
    *slowly steps away*

    Isn't there a bigger chance of me missing it and just incapacitating him?
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





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  10. #20
    Senior Member pinkgraffiti's Avatar
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    question: Canada made it. Australia made it. What went so wrong with the US? And can we give it back to the English?

    ps. ban those guns.

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