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  1. #121
    Parody Parrot meowington's Avatar
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    You can use a knife to butter your bread or you can use it to stab someone with it.
    People will always be inventive when it comes to damaging others, even without guns.

    Having said that, I'm opposed to liberal gun possesion. I like statistics and reason.
    For every "good samaritan saves the day thanks to his gun" story there are 10 with no happy end.
    "I’m forever near a stereo saying, ‘What the fuck is this garbage?’ And the answer is always the Red Hot Chili Peppers" ~ Nick Cave

  2. #122
    Senior Member Adam's Avatar
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    We should extend this line of thinking to nation states, allowing them the proliferation of nuclear weapons to secure their autonomy and self-determination.

    Nukes are equal rights!
    -- geopolitically.

  3. #123
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Did I win?
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  4. #124
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    The original version can't be beat.


  5. #125
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    The original version can't be beat.



    Agreed.








    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #126
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    If guns ARE equal rights then they would be included in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    But they are not.

  7. #127
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    If guns ARE equal rights then they would be included in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    But they are not.


  8. #128
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    You do understand propaganda. So you show us a picture of UN soldiers with guns while we are talking about civilians with guns.

    You do understand that propaganda is neither true nor false but is plausible, and your picture is plausible.

    And of course your picture has nothing to do with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deliberately does not include the right of civilians to bear arms.

    Civilized nations subscribe to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights while others like, the 57 nations of The Organization of Islamic Co-operation, and like the USA, do not.

  9. #129
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    If guns ARE equal rights then they would be included in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
    In due time Mr. Mole, in due time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Civilized nations subscribe to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights while others like, the 57 nations of The Organization of Islamic Co-operation, and like the USA, do not.
    "The Commission on Human Rights was made up of 18 members from various political, cultural and religious backgrounds. Eleanor Roosevelt, widow of American President Franklin D. Roosevelt, chaired the UDHR drafting committee." ~ The Universal Declaration of Human Rights The U.S. not only subscribes to the UDHR, they helped write it. You are misinformed Mr. Mole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    ...the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which deliberately does not include the right of civilians to bear arms.
    Read Article 51 Mr. Mole, of the U.N. charter.

    "Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security."


    I personally would like to see article 51 (of the U.N. charter) modified OR a NEW international right added to the UDHR explicitly imparting the right of an individual to bear arms, basically the U.S. 2nd amendment for everyone . An international human right to keep and bear arms is needed for three reasons. First, the international community is moving towards heavy gun control. Second, government tyranny continues, and evidence suggests that armed populations can fend off such tyranny. Third, violent criminal attacks continue, and people can use arms to protect themselves, duh.

    Here are excerpts of an article articulating the rationale:

    "First, Article 51 recognizes a member State has a right to self-defense regardless of who initiated the attack. The International Court of Justice (ICJ), however, concluded that Article 51 only “recognizes the existence of an inherent right to self-defense in the case of an armed attack by one State against another State.” Some international law judges disagreed with this conclusion and concluded restricting the right to self-defense under Article 51 to attacks by member states is unwarranted on the basis of the text of Article 51 describes the ability to defend against “an armed attack” not “an armed attack by a Member State.” Similarly, scholars have concluded that the text of Article 51 “does not link the right to self-defense to the particular legal personality of the attacker.” State practice under Article 51 supports the “permissibility of responding in self-defense to an attack by a nonstate actor.” The ICJ's conclusion also seems “illogical . . . when the worldwide terrorist threats stem primarily from nonstate actors.” The ICJ's conclusion is, in fact, inconsistent with the United Nation Security Council's endorsement of the United States' right to self-defense against the terrorists who attacked the United States on September 11, 2001. Ultimately, “it would be peculiar if states were legally unable to protect themselves against repeated acts of terrorism, when they can use force against conventional armies attacking conventional targets.”

    "The ability of a State to defend itself against any attacks is a broad protection focused on the security of the nation attacked. We can draw from that principle the right to self-defense is not focused on whom commits the attack, but on providing the attacked with the ability to defend themselves. Consequently, international law allowing for self-defense of nations is analogous to an individual person's right to self-defense: the individual person's right to self-defense is similarly focused on the person's right to defend himself, not on who attacked him. International law in this regard can therefore be viewed as supporting an international right to self-defense."

    "Second, Article 51 recognizes an “inherent right of . . . self-defence.” In other words, the right to self-defense for member States is an essential characteristic of their existence. This rationale follows the natural law notion in the American Second Amendment that recognizes an individual's natural right to self-defense; it does not create the right."

    "The UDHR's preamble provides a goal in international human rights law: people should be free from fear. The UDHR's preamble's aspirational principle supports the notion of preventing government tyranny in that people should be free from fear of barbarous government acts. That interpretation of the purpose or meaning of being free from fear alone, however, would undercut the aspirational principle of the UDHR. If people were without fear from government tyranny but were fearful of actions from private actors, that would undermine the aspiration that people be free from fear. One way to eliminate fear is to provide individuals with a right to defend themselves. If one knew of a lawfully protected right to defend one's self, it would eliminate some fear from threatening situations. A person with knowledge that he can act to defend himself will likely have less fear than a person without knowledge that he could defend himself."

    "Individual arms possession provides a freedom from fear. Gun ownership “often confers a sense of security” upon people who possess them. Many gun owners know they have the means to effectuate self-defense, and this leads them to have more peace of mind in life. Gun ownership is therefore part of the means that the international community should use to achieve the “freedom from fear” mandate. Conversely, to restrict gun ownership would seem to increase the level of insecurity of individuals. This leads to individuals potentially living with less peace of mind and without “freedom from fear.”

    "Multiple international human rights agreements provide support for an international human right to individual self-defense. Article 3 of the UDHR provides that “everyone has the right to life, liberty and the security of person.” Similarly, the Declaration on the Elimination of Violence Against Women (DEVAW) provides that women have “the right to life” and “the right to liberty and security of person.” If every person has a right to life, then self-defense can be the means to foster this right."

    AN INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS

    BY: Dave Kopel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia of the Independence Institute Independence Institute


    Resistance is futile Mr. Mole, you AND Australia will be assimilated.

    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #130
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam View Post
    We should extend this line of thinking to nation states, allowing them the proliferation of nuclear weapons to secure their autonomy and self-determination.

    Nukes are equal rights!
    -- geopolitically.
    I can just see it now, where one "oops" turns into; "holy moly I just nuked Paris... sorry bro". The potential scale of destruction makes extrapolation of this logic dubious at best, trolly at worst and definitely https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman.

    Did you watch the video?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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