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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #491
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Breast Cancer is a poor analogy to rape because a rape requires at least two people. Neither men nor women cause/create breast cancer. The same is not true for rape.
    The point I was trying to make is that an issue can affect men, too, while still being productively addressed primarily as a "women's issue". Rape and sexual harrassment fall into this category.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  2. #492
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    The point I was trying to make is that an issue can affect men, too, while still being productively addressed primarily as a "women's issue". Rape and fall into this category.
    Do you think rape affects men? What % of all rapes do you think men consist? Are you aware of PREA and their surveys?
    Last edited by SpankyMcFly; 06-13-2014 at 10:32 PM.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    In what way do you find women to be different from men - other than the individual differences that abound from one individual to another?

    oh, you didn't catch the update: the huffing post has finally found the meaning of gender differences.


    the only major inconsistency:

  4. #494
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    FTR these are not my theories. I have supplied source links.

    We use humor for all kinds of things. Incongruity is just one form of humor. It sounds like they were using superiority humor when they made fun of PMS, since guys don't get PMS. Just like (some) women make fun of guns getting kicked in the nuts, same thing. Frankly, the ONLY good thing I know about PMS... is that it means you're not pregnant. It's universally disliked-despised. Sounds like they didn't empathize/validate you. Sorry
    And here is the key. While these are people that love and validate me as a person, they don't *get* what PMS is since they're male - all they know is it is 'icky' and supposedly makes you have to deal with a grumpy female. The same is true indeed for the women who joke about kicking in the nuts - they have no idea what that's like so it's easy to joke about and put the other gender down.

    And the same is true about rape. It is hard to empathise with if you haven't been through it even if you know intellectually it is bad. The thing is, how often do you think that people make these kind of lighthearted jokes when there is a victim they don't even know about uncomfortably trying to ignore them? Worse still, how often do they make these kind of jokes about raping 'that person'? Ive heard those 'it's just a joke'-comments more of then I care for - luckily most on the internet. And yes, it *does* scare me (irl), anger me and offend me deeply.

    How is it that everyone understands that joking about slavery to a black person is wrong - to the point where just joking about enslaving a black person without even any present gets you 'Dude!' in most circles, yet this kind of shit somehow is seen as harmless? To the point of actually avoiding ethnic slavery jokes but being fine with sex slavery jokes?? (unless this is something I am not privy to due to white privilege....?)

    I honestly do know that if a group of guys makes me sit through a rape joke, when i don't know them that well individually to know what their moral code is full yet, I *seriously* make a mental note and a red flag on them and want to get out of there, pronto. As much as I prefer male groups normally and get on with them well...too often it's the same guys who'll grab your ass when you're alone and call you a slut when you decline, using 'humour' to vent their frustrations and hide behind, while testing the water and validating their pov, though some certainly are people who use humour the way you described.

    The painful truth is that too many people actually are traumatised by rape - as women, sometimes even men and wayyyy too many children. And before we actually get a handle on that, it really shouldn't be made light of as it is a serious problem in our society. We're not nearly close enough to the point of addressing this properly that we can start safely joking about it as if it's such a ludicrous thing.
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  5. #495
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    How about just treating them the same as you treat men, for a start?
    And after the start?

    ETA: Actually...nevermind. In retrospect, I suspect there is no way to universally find a way to bypass the rape culture because every time a nice guy finds a way to be approachable in some way, some asshole will use that same behavior to disarm and manipulate a woman into thinking he's trustworthy so he can take advantage of her.
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
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  6. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    It is very serious. Taking such things for granted, uncritically, as "obvious" leads to some very inaccurate assumptions. If you are going to cite gender differences as a reason or explanation for something, you should be prepared to explain exactly what you mean.
    If you sincerely believe that there are no innate gender differences between male and female, then there is simply no point having an argument. It is like arguing against someone who believes the world is only 6,000 years old.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Why is this?
    I believe some differentiation in gender roles is important to make both parties value a relationship and have a sense of purpose.

    Also, I know for a fact that women don't respect men who take on traditionally feminine functions. I know that from experience. I don't doubt that you will argue, but just looking at how men who submit to female demands are treated is proof to me that you gain a lot more respect setting guidelines for women and asserting authority.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    So which "side" are you going to encourage to unilateral disarmament?
    As long as feminism exists, men will need game.

    When women had pressure to find a mate and rear children early, all men needed to work on (and much more so than we do now) was making sure that we can provide, that we had structure and a good job. TJ type men benefit from this arrangement at the expense of others - the players and partying types, who can't structure themselves, never got any girls.

    I am nostalgic simply because guys like me are much less attractive to women than we used to be, and I am powerless to change the system at the moment. I am angry at my parents' and grandparents' generations for allowing these changes to happen, instead of thinking about the future and resisting.

  7. #497
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    When women had pressure to find a mate and rear children early, all men needed to work on (and much more so than we do now) was making sure that we can provide, that we had structure and a good job. TJ type men benefit from this arrangement at the expense of others - the players and partying types, who can't structure themselves, never got any girls.

    I am nostalgic simply because guys like me are much less attractive to women than we used to be, and I am powerless to change the system at the moment. I am angry at my parents' and grandparents' generations for allowing these changes to happen, instead of thinking about the future and resisting.
    It is indeed unfortunate for quite a number of men that nowadays a man's individual qualities are more important to a woman than his ability to earn money. But just imagine how fortunate it is for all the women and the even larger number of men who can offer more than mere financial stability.

  8. #498
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I read a good metaphor for this recently: imagine you're offered a bowl of M&Ms. Five percent of them are poison. How comfortable do you feel reaching in for a handful and chowing down? It's possible to acknowledge that most men are good (I actually think most people in general are basically good) and also acknowledge that it's difficult or impossible to identify the ones who aren't.
    Found the source for this one. Upworthy's Tumblr shortly after Isla Vista. This is the same logic behind the Jim Crowe Laws http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Crow_laws The Factual Feminist discusses the topic in the video below.

    Thanks Factual Feminist!

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  9. #499
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    @SilentMusings, please explain these "innate gender differences" you are talking about.
    Are you aware that gender is a social construct? Because unlike your sex which is what you have between your legs and other sex specific biological qualities, gender is a creation of society.
    http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

    Also, I know for a fact that women don't respect men who take on traditionally feminine functions. I know that from experience.
    Anecdotal experience is not fact.

    I am nostalgic simply because guys like me are much less attractive to women than we used to be, and I am powerless to change the system at the moment.
    So all your arguing is because you don't have an attractive personality.
    just looking at how men who submit to female demands are treated is proof to me that you gain a lot more respect setting guidelines for women and asserting authority.
    Clearly, they are getting the women, not you. Relating to the quote above this one.

    I think all this goes back to what @Amargith said in your other thread, respect is a big and very important thing when it comes to relationships. Neither girls nor guys are attracted to or respect people who want to dominate them (asserting an authority over someone is to dominate someone btw.). Unless they are into BDSM I suppose.
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  10. #500
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qloshae View Post
    @SilentMusings, please explain these "innate gender differences" you are talking about.
    Are you aware that gender is a social construct? Because unlike your sex which is what you have between your legs and other sex specific biological qualities, gender is a creation of society.
    http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/


    Anecdotal experience is not fact.


    So all your arguing is because you don't have an attractive personality.

    Clearly, they are getting the women, not you. Relating to the quote above this one.

    I think all this goes back to what @Amargith said in your other thread, respect is a big and very important thing when it comes to relationships. Neither girls nor guys are attracted to or respect people who want to dominate them (asserting an authority over someone is to dominate someone btw.). Unless they are into BDSM I suppose.
    And in BDSM, that permission is given beforehand, after the respect has been thoroughly earned and double-checked (if done properly at least), with a safe word in place and clear hard and soft limits. One of the reasons people engage in BDSM is because handing over that power to someone you trust can bring you even closer together as you *know* they have your welfare and pleasure in mind. Similarly, having someone trust you with their body like that, and embrace the...more raw edges of your person can produce an incredibly high and feeling of humility and gratitude at the same time - a kind of faith you wouldn't dream of snatching away. It's akin to that falling-exercise where you trust the other person will catch you - it builds trust and intimacy. Again - when done correctly.
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