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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #411
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    What the hell? Again, you're entirely misreading me if you think this is anything like what I'm saying. I certainly do not expect you to jump through ANY hoops to prove anything- I've said MULTIPLE times that I don't think you're guilty of ANYTHING and that that's true of most men. I just don't understand why it offends you that your good intentions- and I have no doubt that they are good- are invisible from the outside.

    It's like you're personally affronted that women protect themselves out of habit and don't make an exception for you even when you're really nice to them. It's almost as if you're saying that the habits that are drilled into women from practically birth are an indictment of you personally. Like I said earlier, it's a subroutine- it is in no way personal to anyone specific. It's not an assumption that "all men are rapists." I certainly don't think that.
    also innocent till proven guilty?

    so once i'm raped i have the right to be wary? one can be careful without assuming you're a rapist. it's like wearing a seatbelt even if you've never been in an accident.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  2. #412
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I literally can't even.

  3. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I literally can't even.
    Fine, we'll leave it at that. Same old themes, same old topics, same old shit as ever in the last year and a half.

  4. #414
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    That's fine. Nobody is asking you not to. I wouldn't get on with you if the elevator is in an isolated place, but that's not because I think you're a threat to me specifically- it's just policy.

    I thought it was remarkable that my dad said he would wait for the next elevator to avoid even the possibility of making someone feel unsafe. It's not something I expect of all or any other men- that's why it was remarkable. It just seemed gentlemanly to me. He's a very old-fashioned, chivalrous man. I though you were into that stuff.
    Yeah, that is remarkable. I'd like to think of myself as more old-fashion/chivalrous when I'm not being totally oblivious to my surroundings, but I'd draw the line there. At the same time I can't imagine actually be insulted by a woman who wanted to wait for the next elevator.

    I really don't understand why other men would feel insulted by women being protective in most situations, but again maybe that's just because of my tendency to be oblivious towards strangers.

  5. #415
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qloshae View Post
    Well, maybe it just isn't that way here, because I've heard oh so many hours of girls talking out to other girls, to me, etc. and I can't think of any time something as you described has happened. The only vivid memory of anything of the kind was when 3 guys threw probably 20 condoms at me because I sat next to a girl they decided to openly talk about and how they screamed of joy when I ignorantly decided to sit next to her as I went on the buss (right before they decided to throw the condoms).

    Then again, many times I've been told "all men care about is sex" or all the other sexist comments aimed at demoralizing men by criticizing our intelligence, so why are women surprised when that happens? If you keep accusing people of something, somewhere along the line they stop caring and assimilate the behavior you ascribe to them.
    Women call men idiotic perverts who feel entitled to the bodies of women, raise men with that attitude and then whine because some men turn out behaving that way. Then they blame the rest of the male population and wonder why some men commit suicide.

    Want to solve the problem? Attack the system, not the male gender.
    I am. Youre just not seeing it, which is understandable.

    Meanwhile, i cannot help that my daily reality offends you so. It certainly offends me as well but until that system is brought down, i still have to live and deal with it the best way i know how. And it would help if you understood that. Of course, it is your choice to go 'lalala' instead - you actually have the luxury of ignoring this particular problem and can choose to believe it doesnt exist

    And youre right- entitlement should be adressed across the genders. No argument there.
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  6. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    It just seemed gentlemanly to me. He's a very old-fashioned, chivalrous man. I though you were into that stuff.
    WTF

  7. #417
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, that is remarkable. I'd like to think of myself as more old-fashion/chivalrous when I'm not being totally oblivious to my surroundings, but I'd draw the line there. At the same time I can't imagine actually be insulted by a woman who wanted to wait for the next elevator.

    I really don't understand why other men would feel insulted by women being protective in most situations, but again maybe that's just because of my tendency to be oblivious towards strangers.
    thanks for saying that. i really am surprised by such reactions. wouldn't you want your wife, girlfriend or daughter to be smart about her personal safety too?

    i would think most men would feel better knowing the women in their lives took precautions like this.

    it's as tho some of these men would teach their daughter that this behavior was impolite.

    would you wish for them that they be so trusting as to never be wary of men they don't know?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  8. #418
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Feminists see Muslims as allies against their archenemy (the imaginary white male patriarchy) and are happy to overlook any ideological differences for this reason. The reason you won't see them sending love letters to ayatollahs is because they don't agree on that much. However anything that isn't white, male and Christian is potentially useful to feminists.
    Or western feminists do not hold a monopoly on the concept of women as human beings.

    Or women might actually be a global community facing conceptually identical but systemically unique threats to the acknowledgment of their humanity.


    Misogyny is a real thing. Your source is quite a shining example of it, in fact. Islamophobia is also a real thing - and she does pretty well at that too. The theory she puts forth is that white feminists want to ally with Islam because they are deep down craving a proper romp and beating from the "savage brown men".

    So sex and the white woman's repressed desire to submit is what it's really all about then. She has a hate blog preying on white mens' growing fears about their masculinity, desirability, reproductive futures; she has a hate blog preaching the natural "indecency" of women and that's what it all comes down to. She has a hate blog that reads like a petri dish of her various personal neuroses, and this is a "different perspective" on Islam. Ok.




    This attitude was all too common until Muslim feminists increased dialogue with western feminists. Sometimes it still happens.


    I am just offering you another perspective. Feminists like to think that they speak for all women, but actually you don't.
    I've said it before and I will say it again: I am not, strictly speaking, a feminist. I don't have to align myself with an ideology to see wrong where there is wrong and I don't have to call myself a feminist just because I am not a misogynist. It shouldn't be a radical, ideological statement for me to see my own humanity as a woman in the first place.
    Last edited by Noon; 06-11-2014 at 08:29 PM.

  9. #419
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Yeah, that is remarkable. I'd like to think of myself as more old-fashion/chivalrous when I'm not being totally oblivious to my surroundings, but I'd draw the line there. At the same time I can't imagine actually be insulted by a woman who wanted to wait for the next elevator.

    I really don't understand why other men would feel insulted by women being protective in most situations, but again maybe that's just because of my tendency to be oblivious towards strangers.
    I'd say because the "I don't want to be in an elevator with you" comes with "I think you are a rapist because you have a dick".
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  10. #420
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    Fine, we'll leave it at that. Same old themes, same old topics, same old shit as ever in the last year and a half.
    She never said they had to leave. It is just that the empathy someone like that displays is very much appreciated as it means one can take a break from being vigilant - just this once. That acknowledgement alone already tends to undo a lot of the potential redflags women watch for as entitled people dont usually bother being that attentive without obvious rewards in sight.

    Honestly, the signalling - which ever wsy you choose to do that- that you notice personal boundaries already goes a long way - i bet the same is true for you guys.
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