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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #391
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    ^Unfortunately, at this point, most women just try and avoid to play the odds. It aint personal
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  2. #392
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Just an aside- the parking deck elevator thing came to mind because my dad (also a Vietnam vet, and one of the kindest, gentlest human beings on the face of the planet) told me once that he doesn't get on elevators with women alone because he knows he's a big guy and he doesn't want to make anybody feel unsafe. It doesn't hurt his feelings that strangers can't see into his heart and mind and know he means them no harm. THAT is an honorable man, IMO.
    An honorable man is someone who doesn't get into an elevator because society teaches women that all men want is to have sex with them (willing or not)?
    I mean, what you say is that the standard assumption is that men are rapists, therefor he doesn't get into an elevator with a woman when alone (plus the fact that he is a big guy).
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  3. #393
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Is it any fairer that we have to do risk assessment on every guy we're near and have to invest oodles of energy in navigating that? Nobody enjoys the fact that this is the grim reality we live in, unfortunately. So yes, a guy who understands just how to reassure a woman and help her in that assessment, reduce the amount of energy she has to invest and respects her space needed for peace of mind is very much an honourable man

    Let's hope that some time in the future though, this kind of empathy and risk assessment won't actually be necessary. But just as we don't enjoy investing and dealing with alarm systems in our home, most of us still have them - and nobody is offended by that due to the reality we live in.
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  4. #394
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    i don't imagine it's any different than anyone male or female turning the other way when they see anyone that appears to be potentially threatening.

    rather it's what appears to be a couple of thugs up to no good on your way home from a bar...choosing to not involve yourself with some dude twice your size who's being a bully or causing a scene somewhere.

    there are many instances when one chooses the safest course of action. male or female.

    can't everyone accept that we're all vulnerable in one way or another and not take it personally. it's not about you. it's about us not feeling safe in certain situations. better safe than sorry and all that.

    there are certain rough looking chicks i'd choose not to interact with also.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Is it any fairer that we have to do risk assessment on every guy we're near and have to invest oodles of energy in navigating that? Nobody enjoys the fact that this is the grim reality we live in, unfortunately.
    Well, at least we have equality now. Guys have to do risk assessment for other guys (is the other guy looking for a fight?), and now we have to do it for gals too: Are we too big to be around them? Do we have to yield elevators to them just to prove we're not rapists? Are we going to be taken for "coming onto them" if we meet their eyes and say hi?

  6. #396
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    Well, at least we have equality now. Guys have to do risk assessment for other guys, and now we have to do it for gals too: Are we too big to be around them? Do we have to yield elevators to them just to prove we're not rapists? Are we going to be taken for "coming on to them" if we meet their eyes and say hi?
    And how sad it is that our society has come to that. But yes, that is what it is. And NOBODY likes it. So I suggest we all get off our asses and start earning back each others trust. And I'd say empathy is the first step. On both sides. For the record, I do risk assessment on women too - it's just less extensive than for men as they're less of an imminent danger and more of a backstabbing, social danger. Just like rape for you is a very low-risk assessment as a grown man out of prison while for us it is relatively high on the priority list due to the possibility as well as the devastating nature of it. You just don't want to run that risk.

    Not to mention that the smaller offences (grabbing your ass, demanding your time, not hearing a 'no', kissing you, interrogating you,...) are so common that you just don't want to be near a guy you have no interest in talking to (or more). It's just easier to move away and avoid it.
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  7. #397
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Is it any fairer that we have to do risk assessment on every guy we're near and have to invest oodles of energy in navigating that? Nobody enjoys the fact that this is the grim reality we live in, unfortunately. So yes, a guy who understands just how to reassure a woman and help her in that assessment, reduce the amount of energy she has to invest and respects her space needed for peace of mind is very much an honourable man

    Let's hope that some time in the future though, this kind of empathy and risk assessment won't actually be necessary. But just as we don't enjoy investing and dealing with alarm systems in our home, most of us still have them - and nobody is offended by that due to the reality we live in.
    Tho you are turning it into an issue for women that they have to spend energy, not an issue for men to constantly being seen or judged as being probable rapists no matter who you are as long as you have a dick.
    Also, this "scanning" doesn't seem to actually apply as I have a lot stronger sense for insincerity than most my female friends and I've had a lot of female friends. Clearly they put less energy into it than you claim.
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  8. #398
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qloshae View Post
    Tho you are turning it into an issue for women that they have to spend energy, not an issue for men to constantly being seen or judged as being probable rapists no matter who you are as long as you have a dick.
    Also, this "scanning" doesn't seem to actually apply as I have a lot stronger sense for insincerity than most my female friends and I've had a lot of female friends. Clearly they put less energy into it than you claim.
    You learn, as you grow older - and yes, you run the risk. When you get stopped by (sometimes even groups of) guys every day, and forced to kiss them on the street, you learn. (in my case) you learn to charm them, politely smile so they'll let you go while refusing their demands on knowing your number, address, name, etc.

    You may not be this kind of man - but when I went out to work instead of working at home, I met them every day. And they all felt they were harmless, and entitled to my answers and touching me coz 'hey, they were just talking to me and being friendly'

    It sucks that it ruins things and makes it harder for men and women who just want to get to know one another. It does. But, I'm sorry - your feeling judged because you do not understand this is not personal does not warrant me playing russian roulette with my body. What other women do is entirely their decision. I used to and still do occasionally give people the benefit of the doubt - and it got me groped, restrained, followed, stalked, kissed and wasted away wayyyy too much time in me trying to be polite and non-judgemental to those people. And they played right into that, taking advantage and refusing to hear my polite 'no's'.

    The fact that you cannot understand that is however not my problem - my priority is keeping myself safe. And yes, I do feel frustrated and infuriated that this is the way things are atm. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here trying to help raise awareness and sort this issue out coz I actually *like* hanging out with guys - I tend to be one of em when they're my friends. And I'd love to do that without having to do a background check on each and every one of em. Seriously, most women *love* men, or we wouldn't, as you stated, take those risks in the first place. We're just as much drawn to you as you are to us - so yes, we do take the risk to learn how to recognise which guys are a threat to us and which aren't - and we do make mistakes there, for sure.

    Edit: the thing is - we 're on the same page as to how it should work in theory. And, as you prefer (and me as well), I for many years did give guys the benefit of the doubt and had some amazing conversations that way as well - but honestly, looking back...the risks I took and the stuff I had to endure to make that happen...It's just not something that is practically applicable at this point in time - which is a damn shame. The amount of energy I had to pour into navigating their egos, avoiding letting it get out of hand and undo-ing the effects of just simply smiling at them...it honestly isn't worth it. Especially not when you're just trying to get home after a long day at work. I wish for nothing more than that what I tried for several years to be worthwhile (and don't get me wrong, I do appreciate the guys i did meet that way and what I learned), but ime, at present, it just aint
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  9. #399
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    I think what's funny is that we have three madmins who have participated just in the last couple hours in this thread to try to persuade half the board's membership that the burden is on them to jump through hoops every time they are around women just to prove that they are not violent criminals. Isn't this what whites sometimes say to blacks--"You're all thugs until you prove otherwise"? How about "Innocent until proven guilty"?

    And this is happening on a Typology website. Blah!

  10. #400
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    I think what's funny is that we have three madmins who have participated just in the last couple hours in this thread to try to persuade half the board's membership that the burden is on them to jump through hoops every time they are around women just to prove that they are not violent criminals. How about "Innocent until proven guilty"?

    And this is happening on a Typology website. Blah!
    i think you're misreading intent...like major.

    it happens to all of us so i'm not mad atcha for it. just trying to make you rethink what you think you're reacting to.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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