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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #381
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    While this is easier for me to say vs. practice and don't get me wrong I'm on no horse, high or otherwise

    When in doubt, ask.

    Like dude, seriously, why don't "they" teach us this shit when we are kids?!?! Oh well.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #382
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    yeah for sure...my bf is an infp and we do this too each other constantly. never noticed it quite so much before actually.
    Is it something like this:




    Anyway, I think it's important that Disco know just how horrible an interpretation one can make of his statement without necessarily being necessarily biased against him. Some clarity would help.

  3. #383
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Personally, I think the casualness with which people will so often say "I hope he gets raped in prison" or "I hope some big inmate makes him his bitch" is a giant symptom of rape culture. I find that kind of thing abhorrent and if I had a loved one in prison I would be terrified for him. That is its own tragedy, especially in this day and age when prisons operate for profit and a greater and greater percentage of inmates are nonviolent offenders (often casualties of the war on drugs). It's another way that power imbalances play out- and guards who are complicit in looking the other way and allowing it to happen or even arranging for the circumstances to be right for rapes to occur are IMO just as guilty as the guards in women's prisons who actually rape the inmates.

    As for "I'm not a rapist, her fears don't apply to me"-- that is all well and good, and I appreciate that you're not a rapist. Really and truly, I do. Unfortunately, we have no way of knowing that about you at a glance, and the fucking depressing numbers about the percentages of women who will at some point be assaulted or raped are not very comforting. I read a good metaphor for this recently: imagine you're offered a bowl of M&Ms. Five percent of them are poison. How comfortable do you feel reaching in for a handful and chowing down? It's possible to acknowledge that most men are good (I actually think most people in general are basically good) and also acknowledge that it's difficult or impossible to identify the ones who aren't. (Having said that, I smile at strangers when they say hello to me, and often when they don't- but I wouldn't get into a parking deck elevator with you alone. Don't worry, I'll come up with some kind of excuse to spare your feelings so I don't make you feel like a big mean rapist.)

    I certainly don't go through life thinking everybody is going to rape me, but the "don't get raped" subroutine is certainly drilled into us from an early age. Don't go out alone at night. Don't wear revealing clothes. On your way to your car hold your keys in such a way that you can stab someone in the eye if you need to. And unfortunately, sometimes it's not practical to do everything the "safest" way, and these things don't always work, and then victims get the third degree about how well they executed the "don't get raped" subroutine.

    There's a saying: "It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you." Likewise, it's not really paranoia to be wary when you have a stupidly high chance of being assaulted or raped sometime in your lifetime. It is not surprising that men tend not to understand this- if you make it to adulthood without being molested and then stay out of prison, it's not that likely to happen to you or any of your male friends and relatives, and it's very unpleasant to think about, so most just don't. I feel very fortunate to have a husband who doesn't minimize or mock the experiences his daughter and I share with him, even though he hasn't experienced them himself.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    [...]There's a saying: "It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you." Likewise, it's not really paranoia to be wary when you have a stupidly high chance of being assaulted or raped sometime in your lifetime. It is not surprising that men tend not to understand this- if you make it to adulthood without being molested and then stay out of prison, it's not that likely to happen to you or any of your male friends and relatives, and it's very unpleasant to think about, so most just don't. I feel very fortunate to have a husband who doesn't minimize or mock the experiences his daughter and I share with him, even though he hasn't experienced them himself.
    I'm a Vietnam vet; I went in the Marines because I had zero options. I've had some bones broken in fights; I've spent some overnighters in the county jail. And so on and so on. Everyone's got their burdens and their own fears. Very few get a free ride in life.

    If it's just me and you in the room and I'm behaving decently and honorably and you throw a lot of attitude my way, then don't ask me to be any better than you're being. I don't buy into the argument that I owe you or have victimized you simply by existing.

  5. #385
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    I'm a Vietnam vet; I went in the Marines because I had zero options. I've had some bones broken in fights; I've spent some overnighters in the county jail. And so on and so on. Everyone's got their burdens and their own fears. Very few get a free ride in life.

    If it's just me and you in the room and I'm behaving decently and honorably and you throw a lot of attitude my way, then don't ask me to be any better than you're being. I don't buy into the argument that I owe you or have victimized you simply by existing.
    Where have I given you the impression that I would throw any attitude your way, or that I think you have victimized me by existing? I think you have seriously misread me if you think I would do that or that I think that.

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Where have I given you the impression that I would throw any attitude your way, or that I think you have victimized me by existing? I think you have seriously misread me if you think I would do that or that I think that.
    Just saying. I don't buy the M&M guilt trip. The world's a tough place, granted. But it's tough for everyone. I don't lay guilt trips on you, and I don't want to hear any from you unless I've actually earned them.

  7. #387
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    Just saying. I don't buy the M&M guilt trip. The world's a tough place, granted. But it's tough for everyone. I don't lay guilt trips on you, and I don't want to hear any from you unless I've actually earned them.
    It's not a guilt trip. It's an explanation of why women don't get on parking deck elevators with you even when you are nice to them. It's not that they want you to feel guilty. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY ABOUT YOU.

  8. #388
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    I'm a Vietnam vet; I went in the Marines because I had zero options. I've had some bones broken in fights; I've spent some overnighters in the county jail. And so on and so on. Everyone's got their burdens and their own fears. Very few get a free ride in life.

    If it's just me and you in the room and I'm behaving decently and honorably and you throw a lot of attitude my way, then don't ask me to be any better than you're being. I don't buy into the argument that I owe you or have victimized you simply by existing.
    please reread the post you quoted while removing any sort of imagined intent and see if your response still makes sense.

    just for me...as a sort of an experiment.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #389
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Just an aside- the parking deck elevator thing came to mind because my dad (also a Vietnam vet, and one of the kindest, gentlest human beings on the face of the planet) told me once that he doesn't get on elevators with women alone because he knows he's a big guy and he doesn't want to make anybody feel unsafe. It doesn't hurt his feelings that strangers can't see into his heart and mind and know he means them no harm. THAT is an honorable man, IMO.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    It's not a guilt trip. It's an explanation of why women don't get on parking deck elevators with you even when you are nice to them. It's not that they want you to feel guilty. IT'S NOT ACTUALLY ABOUT YOU.
    I understand why a woman might not want to get on an elevator alone with me in an isolated setting. And hopefully a woman will understand when I don't want to defend her honor and get my ass kicked in a bar when she gets into a drunken tiff with some big bar fighter. I understand the nature of self-protection.

    But sometimes the attitude is actually about me; sometimes it's just her and me, and some women can be so primed for trouble that they are hair-trigger with the attitude and the guilt trips.

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