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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    exactly.

    i really would like disco to explain what he meant.

    are men being disrespected because they're not being given sex freely as much as they'd like? surely you can't mean that.

    how are they being treated like animals? in what way are they not respected?
    I don't have the tools or patience to explain it in a way you would understand. But assuming the worst in us doesn't help.

    If you are going to treat me like the bad guy, I just might act like him...

  2. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    There's a lot of bad blood, Disco, due to legitimate crap like this. And I'd say it's in both our interests to come together and sort it out, instead of just staying in our trenches.
    I expect Disco means what Amargith implied.

    Men get painted with the broad brush of the Isla Vista shooter.

    Women get painted with the broad brush of Lorena Bobbit.

    Gays get painted with the broad brush of Jeffrey Dahmer.

    Religious people get painted with the broad brush of priest pedophiles. And so on.

    Yeah, there's some genuine bad shit in the world. But what good does it do to seize upon the example of a lone psychopath or some old historical wrong just so you can shove your thumb in someone else's eye and put them on the defensive? As Amargith says, It just leaves everyone in their trenches.

    If I say "hi" at some gal in passing on the street and she glares at me in response like I'm a pervert coming on to her, that's fine with me. If her head's stuck in some paranoid place, that's her problem, not mine. I just glare back at her and continue on my way. It's not my job to fuck up my own head trying to reach out and share her paranoid place with her. I'm not a rapist; her fears simply don't apply to me.

    Meantime for every for every woman who appears to get prickly or defensive when I have to interact with them, there are 2-3 women who greet me warmly and seem happy to chat with me if the opportunity for talk arises. If I'm going to reach out, I'll reach out to them.

    I think age is part of the solution. Young people have little and don't want to risk the little that they have. Older people, on the other hand, come to realize that they're missing out on life by clinging to paranoias (sitting in trenches) rather than coming out to play.

  3. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    I don't have the tools or patience to explain it in a way you would understand. But assuming the worst in us doesn't help.

    If you are going to treat me like the bad guy, I just might act like him...
    i don't know if that was a general you or a me you but the reason i'm asking for clarity is because i know how wrong my interpretations can be. ne dom is hell that way sometimes.

    so just trying to understand your pov here.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  4. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    The <Pro-Woman/Muslim> false dichotomy has been a point of contention between pro-western and post-colonial feminists for a while now. The emerging embrace of liberal Islam is in part a product of cross-dialogue that has for good reason strove to finally topple it and in rarer part a product of the same hegemonic savior complex that originally proposed it. Yet and still in either circumstance, I severely doubt that you will find most liberal feminists marching alongside "hardcore Islamic types". Are the Ayatollah Khomeinis of the world receiving Girl Power stickers? Are the Hebah Ahmeds even?
    Feminists see Muslims as allies against their archenemy (the imaginary white male patriarchy) and are happy to overlook any ideological differences for this reason. The reason you won't see them sending love letters to ayatollahs is because they don't agree on that much. However anything that isn't white, male and Christian is potentially useful to feminists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    I'm going to take a small leap of logic here and guess that you and your source are painting Islam in itself as "hardcore" and any non-hegemonists as anti-white "Islamophiles" in turn.

    Good news: if you believe Islam and feminism are co-conspirators for 'the global fall of western virtues' (read: "a threat to western cultural supremacy"), you have a little more in common with the hegemonists than you think.

    Your source declares, in a single sentence, all that isn't white or male to be indecent.
    I don't agree with that, I find other cultures interesting and like women because they are different to men. However, I have no desire to see ingrates from here, there and everywhere pollute the gene pool of my people, and I have already made it clear what I think of entitled women who refuse to do any housework and play mind games with dating and sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noon View Post
    And so essentially, a white supremacist Christian housewife who sees her "God-given" biological reality to be indecent - and who seemingly cannot differentiate between a surah and a hadith - is the true unbiased voice of clarity on women and Islam?
    I am just offering you another perspective. Feminists like to think that they speak for all women, but actually you don't.

  5. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    i don't know if that was a general you or a me you but the reason i'm asking for clarity is because i know how wrong my interpretations can be. ne dom is hell that way sometimes.

    so just trying to understand your pov here.
    Disco really should explain because it sounds like Disco's saying a woman can treat a man in such a way that she deserves to be raped.

    Incidentally, I just came across this from video from the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) on my FB feed. It would be pretty crazy to insinuate that magnum, or anyone at the NY times or group of 88 deserves to be raped because of the allegations as bad as they were.



    Hopefully, this won't distract from the conversation about rape, but remind people that while accusers need support and rapists need to be punished ignoring due process can be detrimental to the public's perception of accusers on the rare occasion there is a false accusation.

    Btw, here's what happened to the people who helped fan the flames which only hurt victims and potential victims.
    Whatever Happened to the Group of 88?

  6. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why do "heterosexual" men rape other men in prison if it ISN'T about power?
    Prison rape is often about sex, but sometimes it's about messaging. Most prisons separate the homosexual/transgendered/bisexual population from the general pop to protect them from assault along with the sexual offenders, suicidals, mentally ill etc. This is done during the "classification" phase of your prison intake. Although some prisoners purposely self label as one of these types in order to be put into this population. Most prison rapists self label as heterosexual. Especially the "aggressive wolves". They engage in homosexual rape for sex due to a lack of heterosexual (consensual) opportunities. Sometimes it's a one way street, "punks" and other times it's a two way street, "bitches/fags". Basically most rape because they're horny. I know right? A very foreign concept for some people wrap their mind around. Unfortunately the phenomena has not been critically studied much.

    Granted sometimes a prison rape is setup by the staff who use it as a means to control inmate population. Other times inmates will be forced (by the staff) to engage in gladiator style fights, with the winner sometimes being allowed to "take all", meaning your booty. When you are raped in prison it is not long before others become aware of your "victim" status. Sometimes the perp tells others, other times it's obvious to your cell neighbors what has occured, other times it's the guards. You quickly become a target for all kinds of abuse, including sexual assaults by others The only way to stop that downward spiral is often to maim/kill your attacker to send a message to the others. This will sometimes involve retribution rape.

    Bottom line: prison rapes occur for all kinds of reasons, but it's mostly for sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Male prisons are organised around hypermasculine, profoundly hierarchical lines.
    This seems a tad melodramatic. We are social creatures, of course we setup groups/cliques etc. When you factor in the "classification" process and highly stratified nature of inmate segregation (in order to better control the inmate population) it's no wonder. FTR, they do this at female prisons too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I don't have an explanation for that one, but I did a quick google and came across this ~ Why do young men rape elderly women? And why does nobody care?: A special report by Linda Grant on a shocking crime which it seems we all prefer to ignore - Life & Style - The Independent A relevant excerpt:

    "The Prison Service could find no psychiatrists in their own sexual offender treatment programmes who could offer any opinion on the subject. Victim Support and Age Concern can offer no insight into the crime. There is no research, there are no studies of the after-effects of rape among elderly women. Despite the large amount of literature on date rape, there is almost nothing on the rape of older women. As one American study on the treatment of rape victims, published in 1991, admits: 'The sexual assault of older women has received little attention in the rape literature. As a result there is paucity of information on the incidence and characteristics of sexual victimisation of the elderly and of the resulting psychological effects.'

    Hmmm, why is that? Perhaps the issue of rape is being framed a certain way, causing people to ignore/overlook "other" types of rape Framing (social sciences) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Excellent question Salome, you've raised my awareness, seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Are you aware that both of these things cannot simultaneously be true, (unless more men than women are also are raped in the general population, in which case, why make a special case of prison rape)?
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    FTR convicted rapists and other sex offenders are separated from the general prison population for their own protection because contrary to rape culture, rapists are even ostracized by their fellow criminals and often are targeted for special "treatment". The vast majority of rapes occur within the general pop.
    My apologies. I abbreviated general prison population to general pop.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Why is the profile of the victim such a contentious issue for you?
    Discussing the crime of rape within the framework of "rape culture", ignores/overlooks other important aspects of rape, this Framing (social sciences) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia has detrimental effects, imo, on our society as a whole. There is more to rape than the gynocentric version that "rape culture" is.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  7. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    This. It really does seem lazy -- and it derails the conversation, making it about YOU (i.e. the offended party, not you, Coriolis), when before it was about the victims.

    #NotAllMen: How Not To Derail Discussions of Women's Issues

    Not exactly the same topic, but similar in many ways.
    Could you explain your intent please?

    Here's what I'm getting out of your comment. A thread titled: Does rape culture exist? has garnered a discussion on the nature/politics/basis etc. of rape culture including examples of other types of rape, as supporting evidence. You think that the discussion is being "derailed" (I didn't know this conversation had a rail other than "Does rape culture exist") to instead cover topics that you think should be discussed "...when before it was about the victims."

    Further I'm lead to think that your inclusion of a "How not to derail a discussion on womens issues" was in support your point. That we should be discussing the victims and that rape and rape culture is a womens issue.

    Please advise.

    FTR I'd like to point out the obvious:

    1) a man can care about women's issues (I'm married myself and have two daughters)
    2) the crime of rape happens to men as well (I also have two brothers in prison)
    3) rape is not a women's issue, it is a societal/criminal one that affects us all, directly or otherwise
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #378
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF View Post
    I expect Disco means what Amargith implied.

    Men get painted with the broad brush of the Isla Vista shooter.

    Women get painted with the broad brush of Lorena Bobbit.

    Gays get painted with the broad brush of Jeffrey Dahmer.

    Religious people get painted with the broad brush of priest pedophiles. And so on.

    Yeah, there's some genuine bad shit in the world. But what good does it do to seize upon the example of a lone psychopath or some old historical wrong just so you can shove your thumb in someone else's eye and put them on the defensive? As Amargith says, It just leaves everyone in their trenches.

    If I say "hi" at some gal in passing on the street and she glares at me in response like I'm a pervert coming on to her, that's fine with me. If her head's stuck in some paranoid place, that's her problem, not mine. I just glare back at her and continue on my way. It's not my job to fuck up my own head trying to reach out and share her paranoid place with her. I'm not a rapist; her fears simply don't apply to me.

    Meantime for every for every woman who appears to get prickly or defensive when I have to interact with them, there are 2-3 women who greet me warmly and seem happy to chat with me if the opportunity for talk arises. If I'm going to reach out, I'll reach out to them.

    I think age is part of the solution. Young people have little and don't want to risk the little that they have. Older people, on the other hand, come to realize that they're missing out on life by clinging to paranoias (sitting in trenches) rather than coming out to play.
    Agreed.

    I dislike fear politics myself and to watch an issue get hyped up so much and then listen/see young women walking around like there were in prison or something on 24/7 rape prevention mode disheartens me. Don't get me wrong, it's a real threat, but really? "Fear is the mind killer" One can be cognizant of a threat and not feel fear.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #379
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    i don't know if that was a general you or a me you but the reason i'm asking for clarity is because i know how wrong my interpretations can be. ne dom is hell that way sometimes.
    I do this all the time too and can relate. Whle I don't consider myself an Ne dom, my interpretations of intent/motive/meaning has been VERY wrong in the past. Eventually "we" buy a clue $$$, and realize sometimes all we need to do is just ask the person to explain themselves vs. us engaging in all these fanciful theorizing. I learned this at work actually where the consequences can be quite dire for "assuming" things.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  10. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    I do this all the time too and can relate. Whle I don't consider myself an Ne dom, my interpretations of intent/motive/meaning has been VERY wrong in the past. Eventually "we" buy a clue $$$, and realize sometimes all we need to do is just ask the person to explain themselves vs. us engaging in all these fanciful theorizing. I learned this at work actually where the consequences can be quite dire for "assuming" things.
    yeah for sure...my bf is an infp and we do this too each other constantly. never noticed it quite so much before actually.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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