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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #341
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Rape is about power rather than sex. So rape culture is the culture of power.

    So rape is part of the power of money, the power of the military, the power of religion, the power of ideology, and the power of men.
    That is the feminist narrative verbatim. Susan Brownmiller (journalist/activist Susan Brownmiller - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) argued in her book Against Our Will; Men, Women and Rape (mid 70's) that "rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear". Patriarchy theory+ Other feminists assert that male domination of women in socio-political and economic domains is the ultimate cause of most rapes, and consider male-female rape to be a crime of power that has little or nothing to do with sex itself.

    I'd ask that you look outside your perspective Mr. Mole to consider alternate reasons. Here is a good start. The feminist explanation for rape: An empirical test (Lee Ellis: he doesn't have a wiki but he's a biosocial criminologist, here's a book by him instead Amazon.com: Theories Of Rape: Inquiries Into The Cause Of Sexual Aggression (9780891161721): Lee Ellis: Books)

    The Abstract:

    "This study was directed toward testing a major component of the feminist explanation for rape: that such criminal behavior is most fundamentally the result of traditions of male domination in most sociopolitical and economic affairs. The rape rates of 26 large American cities were compared, using both official FBI and victimization statistics, relative to various indicators of these cities' degree of sociopolitical and economic inequalities between the sexes. Four out of 14 correlations were significant, three with a sign opposite to that predicted by the feminist explanation. When presumed effects of the two strongest control variables were removed, using partial correlation techniques, only one coefficient was significant, and it was in the direction contrary to the feminist explanation. Generally, rape rates in American cities appear to be unrelated to sex disparities in earnings, education, occupational prestige, or employment. Thus, the belief that reducing average sex disparities in sociopolitical and economic terms will ameliorate a community's rape problem was not supported."

    You can get a copy of the full paper here: http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21104280226363

    There are other reasons than just dominance/power for rape. Here have another look see. Richard Felson (Professor Richard Felson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) coauthored with Robert Pentsky (Professor http://view.fdu.edu/files/MA_Highlights_2012_2013.pdf) Aggression and Coercive Actions: A Social-Interactionist Perspective In it they argue that some rapists rape for... wait for it... sex.

    Here is an overview. Violence, Aggression, and Coercive Actions

    I linked the info on the persons mentioned because I believe origin/source and their credentials should be taken into consideration when contemplating their "thoughts/theories". You wouldn't go to a ballet instructor to learn to swim better now would you? What if you fall out of that boat you are always messing about in?!

    *Wonder's why moles like to mess about in boats, what an odd mole*
    Last edited by SpankyMcFly; 06-10-2014 at 01:20 AM. Reason: updated source references
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #342
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    No. Rape culture is to rape what a culture of violence would be to murder. The two are related, in that rape is a subset of all violence, just as misogyny is a subset of all bigotry/hatred/bias.
    I would point out the purpose for my analogy. Rape culture is to rape, a specific kind of rape (male vs. female) as Inner city murder (a specific kind of murder) is to murder. My point would be, if you interested in rape awareness, consider all kinds of rape, not just one narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Verbiage and framing of issues has become important mainly because too many people are too lazy to look critically at the issue itself.
    I can agree with this, however my "inner realist" tells me that humans are always going to be like that I liken it to what William James said about habits and how our brains are so deluged with information & stimuli that we develop schema (my word, not his) in order to quickly make sense of things so that we can power down our brains. Quite efficient, calorically.

    Chapter 1
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  3. #343
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    That is the feminist narrative verbatim.
    Women were first emancipated in New Zealand in 1893 and in Australia in 1895.

    Women were raped as children, and women were raped in marriage, and women were raped in the steets, and guess what: it was all their fault.

    The struggle against male power is not only against the power to rape but against the power over women's minds.

    The only question now is: who side are you on?

    Are you on the side of rape culture? Are you on the side of sharia and rape in marriage? Do you support the power of men to buy the bodies of women?

  4. #344
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Women were first emancipated in New Zealand in 1893 and in Australia in 1895.

    Women were raped as children, and women were raped in marriage, and women were raped in the steets, and guess what: it was all their fault.

    The struggle against male power is not only against the power to rape but against the power over women's minds.
    Setting aside the black/white fallacy you've laid before me I will answer your inquiries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Are you on the side of rape culture?
    I am against the use of the term rape culture. From the feminist perspective I am what you'd call a denier. I certainly don't buy into Patriarchy Theory either. I'd qualify my answer with my stance on sexual violence. It's bad mkay? People shouldn't rape. Those who do need to be punished. Society should continue to instill this value. Government help on the relief side is ok, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Are you on the side of sharia and rape in marriage?
    Sharia? That's just crazy talk. As an atheist that is like the boogie man to me. Uh, hell NO. Rape in marriage. Easy, don't rape, period, married or not. Spousal rape should be criminalized where it is not already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Do you support the power of men to buy the bodies of women?
    Another easy one for me. YES. I think legal prostitution (of men too!) should be instituted more widely in the U.S. On a semi related note, albeit unsolicited, I'm all for porn

    Mr. Mole, make love not war (although I do believe in Just War Theory, I'm not a pacifist), even if it is just your hand. I seriously believe this planet needs to get laid more often, oral too. I know some of you are offended at being told you need to get laid... but yeah, sticking with this one. I'm kinda a hippy in this regard *eyeroll*

    P.S. Did you check out the counter perspective I offered you in the prior post?
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    better for everyone to open our eyes to the many ways, small and large, these assumptions shape our daily interactions.
    everyone or just everyone else? as it stands, a cultural platform to encompass all wrongdoings against one gender that can somehow be stretched to fit metaphorical rape and vilify active-seeking sexuality and thus the most common expectation and sexual roles of the entire opposite gender might not come across as fighting against gender discrimination as much as it comes across as over compensating for past gender discrimination with counter gender discrimination in the present - in fact the overlap between the undertones and social implications of some of the wider definitions of this and the concept of nymphomania which framed female sexuality in yesteryear are very hard to shake (ironically by framing crazy as the norm rather then framing the norm as crazy).

    it's not that you can't get any men on your side within this framework, it's that you are rather limited to a small pool of self-loathing men... and possibly the would be rapists who's violent urges you've excused to be part of a social trend ("it's ok, all men do it in one way or another, it's not your fault your a man...").

    there is feminism as fighting against gender discrimination and there is feminism as a thin veil for misandry and juvenile gender wars. this is not the first.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Women were first emancipated in New Zealand in 1893 and in Australia in 1895.

    Women were raped as children, and women were raped in marriage, and women were raped in the steets, and guess what: it was all their fault.

    The struggle against male power is not only against the power to rape but against the power over women's minds.
    The last time I looked women were legally privileged over men in a whole range of ways. I have been advised by older friends that it is too risky getting married now, as a man, and looking at the stats myself it isn't pretty. And like some others you seem to lack perspective regarding time and place.

    Rape Culture Culture, and creeps
    Feminist Lie #1: Rape Culture | The Mask And Rose

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    The only question now is: who side are you on?

    Are you on the side of rape culture? Are you on the side of sharia and rape in marriage? Do you support the power of men to buy the bodies of women?
    Exactly; whose side are you on?

    Feminists don't give a damn about sharia and are happy to march alongside hardcore Islamic types. They only hate white men. This tells me a lot about their beliefs and motivations.

    On the Western feminist love affair with Islam. | Sunshine Mary

  7. #347
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    I voted no because I wouldn't say "rape culture", rather a "rape subculture" that believes rape is ok, the distinction is important.
    The former is still aimed at warning victims (which is why the discussion on rape culture started to begin with), the latter calls the mentality a choice.
    Thing is, if something is innate, you can't be blamed for it, if it is a choice you can. Which is why people with mental illnesses get lighter punishments (since they are considered mentally compromised).
    Which brings us to another problem, if it is a subculture, you can't persecute them because they are a cultural minority. If you persecute a culture you are committing a cultural persecution. Both of which are on the level of racism, sexism and all those nasty words.
    culture: definition of culture in Oxford dictionary (British & World English)

    How will this tag of "rape subculture" bring more equality tho?
    I mean, it really won't since most people are already aware that rape is a problem that needs to be dealt with, it is just gonna be a harassment term to throw at men who don't agree with you.
    In the end, you are biting half the hand that feeds you as those men you will accuse of supporting this rape subculture will only be offended if they are actually against rape, those who don't give a shit about women won't really care if you throw that term at them.
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  8. #348
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Entitlement culture might be better though is a wider area still than rape culture addresses. But it stems from the sameroot so it might just work
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  9. #349
    Assassin from the future Qloshae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Entitlement culture might be better though is a wider area still than rape culture addresses. But it stems from the sameroot so it might just work
    Exactly, I'd say the large majority of rape originates from a sense of entitlement.
    Feeling entitled to people and things is also one of the least admirable traits a human being can have, yet something we teach our children since the moment they were born - "you can have whoever and whatever you want, let no one and no thing stop you" and other such comments that boosts a person's sense of entitlement.
    I mean, if you've had the idea that you are entitled to do what 'you' want no matter what others want engraved since you were born, someone not consenting when you ask for sex is unlikely to be treated as any of your concern.

    This is also why I seem to have issues with most vocal feminists, there's no "we need to share, no one is above the other", it is "I am entitled to have what you unrightfully have, because I have a vagina!".

    The sense of entitlement truly is one of the most disgusting and disruptive creations of humanity.
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  10. #350
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Women were first emancipated in New Zealand in 1893 and in Australia in 1895.

    Women were raped as children, and women were raped in marriage, and women were raped in the steets, and guess what: it was all their fault.

    The struggle against male power is not only against the power to rape but against the power over women's minds.
    Upon further reflection on this it occurred to me Mr. Mole. could you elaborate on what you think about the 180k or so male vs. male rape victims per year in U.S. prisons? As you say, "rape is about power" and not sex why do men rape each other in prison?

    Have you ever heard of the term Prison Bitch? In case you haven't it's when one prisoner makes his rape victim his perpetual sex slave. I wouldn't bother empathizing since they are just "criminals" right? and it's really only the first few rapes that can be brutal (imagine the force a man needs to overcome a woman, now imagine how much force is needed to succumb another man), while the threat of force is sometimes all that's needed for the ones that do resist it's nothing a few beatdowns can't fix.

    FTR convicted rapists and other sex offenders are separated from the general prison population for their own protection because contrary to rape culture, rapists are even ostracized by their fellow criminals and often are targeted for special "treatment". The vast majority of rapes occur within the general pop.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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