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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #291
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Society View Post
    that alone doesn't support in which ways they are (as i explained, the concept seem to be part of something bigger which outright contradicts the value of equal worth - either interpretation view's the concept under big picture analysis).
    Sorry. In that case I still don't understand your point. It is 6am and I haven't slept all night and I've got urgent work to do, so that may be part of it. Not saying you're right or wrong, just that I honestly still don't understand what you are trying to say and will withdraw from the discussion for a while.
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  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Sorry. In that case I still don't understand your point. It is 6am and I haven't slept all night and I've got urgent work to do, so that may be part of it. Not saying you're right or wrong, just that I honestly still don't understand what you are trying to say and will withdraw from the discussion for a while.
    ok, that makes sense (i was surprised and taken back a little - from what i've seen your usually quite good on analyzing perspectives rather then framing them - i wasn't sure what's going on). it's 7am here as well. i'd still like to get a better grasp of this (because i am still not sure if i am right or wrong), but... yes for better timing.

  3. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    It only sounds like I am "policing semantics" because I am trying to be very precise in my meaning. I am attempting to be very precise in my meaning because if I am not, my words will be taken and twisted to fit whatever someone wants to complain about. The reason my words are likely to be taken and twisted is because it's called "rape culture." One wrong word can be turned into accusing me of being in favor of rape, or against women, or whatever other broad-based charge someone feels like leveling.


    No, it isn't what it is. There is no one "thing." It's a broad spectrum of things, each with their own possible discussions and resolutions, stuck under a deliberately provocative label designed to incite passion and stifle discussion. And then everyone wonders why discussion is stifled.

    And it isn't just the "rape" term. Everyone is against "rape." "Culture" is what makes it huge and vague. So if someone has an answer for any particular piece of the problem, one can simply bring up another piece of the problem, and dismiss the answer by saying, "Well, yeah, but what about THIS?!"

    It's not "poignancy." It's hyperbole. I remain unashamed of "detracting from" hyperbole.


    "Could", but it doesn't. Where "rape" obviously does. Is its "poignancy" so valuable that you prefer the drama to the solutions?


    You have cause and effect backward. My life created huge sections of that thread.
    A broad spectrum of things can be categorized under an umbrella that refers to the totality of those things. That totality is a singular thing, and in this case that thing orbits around rape. Does it make sense to you that a singular culture can be broken down into an array of smaller ones? If it does, and if you've read my definition, the term "rape culture" should be no problem for you. All language is essentially analog, so in the case you've seen my definition, the only reason you consider it hyperbolic is because it ruffles your feathers. And, unless you haven't read my definition, I still wonder if you're denying the existence of the problem itself - you insinuate the term "rape" carries inherent baggage, but for those who engross themselves in the culture, it carries little to none. Ie. the amount of baggage depends on one's experiences and relevant emotional composition. I could log on to XBOX Live right now and dawdle around in a few chatrooms for a couple of hours to eventually hear the screeching of 14 year olds telling me to "Get raped." if I happen to win against them. Even if they aren't rapists themselves, I consider that to be symptomatic of a cultural ailment because they've failed to use the term appropriately. They've equivocated a traumatic experience to the mechanics of a petty game. That's a hyperbole.

    Your life created huge sections of the ENFP INTJ thread. All the more reason for you to recognize that terms have no inherent baggage until they correspond with someone's direct experience.

    Not everyone is entirely against rape. Sorry. That's idealistic, and proof that regardless of whether you read my definition, you don't acknowledge the problem. I've already quoted someone in this thread who said that rape is admissible under certain conditions.

    This conversation is 30 pages long; is that not proof enough that the term generates discussion? I've already seen at least one person learn something entirely new. I consider communication to be essential to devising solutions; emotions are essential for either to take place.

    I'm going to do a 180 here and address something I touched on earlier - gender identity contributes to every culture, and the more one fixates on a gender role, the less compassionate they are toward the other gender. Empathy becomes fractured. Then we get into postmodern ideas about "other"-izing people - "other"-izing that contributes to degrees of dehumanization. It's not just a sociopathic thing - culture plays a role in how much you dehumanize those of different creeds and backgrounds. That's part of the reason war-crimes (including rape) take place, and part of the reason it happens on a domestic level.

    I don't think gender roles are the only thing that shapes rape culture, so the idea that they are fundamental to it is extremely dubious (after all, sometimes people of the same sex victimize each other), but my above example demonstrates just how complex a seemingly simple topic can be, and how even if you want to call it "sexual assault culture" or whatever, that shorthand notation will fail to intuitively address things it bleeds into.
    Last edited by Ginkgo; 06-06-2014 at 11:40 PM.

  4. #294
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I just got yet another message from a company who is demanding info from me and threatening me if I don't follow up with them after having fired them at least 7 months ago. Two written notices, several phone calls (which prove nearly impossible as they don't answer their phones) and several unusable, bouncing email addresses and several threats to sue on their part later, they are still harassing me to sign up with them *again*.

    You know what? It's not just the fucking people, it is our fucking entitled culture. Companies claiming they didn't get your notices, threatening you with administrative fees, and god knows what else - we had this crap with at least 3 big companies before we left belgium and chances are we're on a black list if we ever move back there because they refused to close down our account even after repeated notices which they claim they didn't get, and demanding the 'administrative fees' that happened due to their ignoring. Harassing people with hard-sale phone calls every month to get you to change phone plan, just coz they can. It's bloody nauseating to see just how entitled and objectifying people with power can be - and companies are the epitome of this, so it seems. Harass em till they don't dare to say no, and just sign in exasperation. Feel entitled to their time, make them jump through hoops to get out of a contract that should be straight forward and make it impossible for them to reach you in any way. Oh and don't forget to badger them for a new contract the second that old one has finally been terminated by all the hoop jumping. That's the way to go.

    /rant.
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  5. #295
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    @uumlau (and others), it seems like you're more concerned about precision of language than you are about the meat and potatoes of what this term refers to. I find that difficult to parse.
    Hello Ivy.

    The OP asked if you believed in rape culture. Clearly there is a difference between rape and rape culture, as asking do you believe in rape is uh... a no brainer. FTR I am against rape, I am also against using broad & vague terms that change the nature of the issue. Calling anything culture "assumes" way too much in this context and says that a majority of our society accepts/practices something.

    "Anthropologists have been discussing and debating definitions of culture since the origin of the discipline in the 19th century. In 1952 two prominent American anthropologists, Alfred Kroeber and Clyde Kluckhohn, published an entire volume cataloging different definitions of culture. A useful summary of that discussion, grouping their 160 different definitions into eight categories, is provided by John Bodley in his Cultural Anthropology: Tribes, States and the Global System (1994). Bodley goes on to distill what is useful in these categories and to define culture in a useful way. Culture, he suggests, is made up of at least three components: what people think, what they do, and the material products they produce. The problem with defining culture as shared values and beliefs, as some anthropologists feminists do, is that there can be a vast difference between what people think they ought to do (value) and what they actually do (behavior)."

    Cultural Anthropology: Tribes, States, and the Global System: John H. Bodley: 9780759118669: Amazon.com: Books

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Rape Culture is a Feminist narrative, an integral part of their collective and perpetual victimhood that focuses on the male aggressor and female victim while discounting male on male (prison rapes especially), female on female (homosexual couples, which wasn't even considered rape until recently) or the uncommon female on male.
    The term Rape Culture is gender politics that turns the crime of rape into a binary opposition between men (potential rapists) and women (perpetual potential victims of rape). The reality is, more men are raped each year than women when you factor in prison rape. OMG!!!, yes I said it Go ahead look into prison rape stats.

    The Bureau of Justice Statistics performs a survey each year, in accordance with the Prison Rape Elimination Act of 2003. They only survey a portion of the total inmate population. Here is the report for 2014 http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/pdca14.pdf

    "A total of 92,449 inmates age 18 or older participated in the survey, including 38,251 prison inmates, 52,926 jail inmates, 573 ICE detainees, 539 inmates in military facilities, and 160 inmates in Indian country facilities. The survey was also administered to 527 juveniles ages 16 to 17 held in state prisons and 1,211 juveniles ages 16 to 17 in local jails."

    Of those 92k: "Administrators of adult correctional facilities reported 8,763 (both male/female) allegations of sexual victimization". The "experts" say about 180k victims per year, give or take a few k.

    I know, I know, they are just "criminals", right? Consider:

    The innocence project The Innocence Project - Home

    The U.S. has the highest incarceration on the planet, 25% of the entire worlds incarcerated population are in the U.S., we love to lock people up, only 53% are in for "violent" crimes. Sorry, too lazy to find my links on this subject.

    9% is the average likely hood of a male being incarcerated over his lifetime Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) - Lifetime Likelihood of Going to State or Federal Prison

    Ever notice how very little "rape culture" touches on this? Hmmm I wonder why... Wait, who is doing the awareness raising... ahhh yeah... male perps, female victims, got it.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  6. #296
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Ever notice how very little "rape culture" touches on this? Hmmm I wonder why... Wait, who is doing the awareness raising... ahhh yeah... male perps, female victims, got it.
    I can actually get very on-board with this. It was already my stance that while the symptoms of "rape culture" are very real, that the name is garbage. I think the movement towards making the world safer for the sexes when it comes to sexually-charged violence has massively failed, and partly because good intentions have been swallowed by hate and anger and resentment. And I am not surprised politics has swallowed all of that whole. As long as we're not fighting for both sides of the issue, no one is going to band together. There's really nothing in it for men to say, "Oh, yeah, I support anti-rape culture movements" without having some baggage and shame. It alienates men. It's insane how far away men are pushed from women--and it's the opposite of how things get fixed. Anger and outrage rarely fix anything.
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  7. #297
    Senior Member Noon's Avatar
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    Adly Mansour approved criminalization of sexual harassment.

    It's a start.

  8. #298
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    I can actually get very on-board with this. It was already my stance that while the symptoms of "rape culture" are very real, that the name is garbage. I think the movement towards making the world safer for the sexes when it comes to sexually-charged violence has massively failed, and partly because good intentions have been swallowed by hate and anger and resentment. And I am not surprised politics has swallowed all of that whole. As long as we're not fighting for both sides of the issue, no one is going to band together. There's really nothing in it for men to say, "Oh, yeah, I support anti-rape culture movements" without having some baggage and shame. It alienates men. It's insane how far away men are pushed from women--and it's the opposite of how things get fixed. Anger and outrage rarely fix anything.
    Agreed.

    Educating people is all fine and good but when you do it at the expense of alienating men, you know, the OTHER half of the population, (by framing the issue as a female victim only discussion) whom might otherwise be inclined to be interested and become a part of the solution, the WHOLE solution, seems counter productive to "efficiently" getting stuff done. It makes me wonder, what the "real" point is... but I digress.
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #299
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    I think the rape culture isn't a singular "thing"...middle class liberal college educated people don't live in a rape culture, and the feminists who get mocked for mentioning rape culture are usually by middle class educated white men who have empowered professional mothers and all their colleagues respect women, and may even feel stifled by feminism...but that doesn't mean rape culture doesn't exist.

    It exists in the south, where twenty years ago when my mother's husband raped her, while they were legally separated, living apart and in the process of divorced, Boss Hogg and his ilk snickered at my mother that her husband couldn't rape her.

    Slut shaming still exists, and that's also indicative of victim blaming when rape occurs at parties and on college campuses.

    Personally I grew up loving horror movies so got exposed to hyperbolic violence towards women and because of my generation of horror fan, had access to a lot of heroines in those films who kicked the perpetrators ass, which in my opinion is the admission of a mainstream culture that's fighting it's way out of rape culture, because horror movies and.novels tend to mirror the fears of that generation. If I have to strengthen my backbone to prepare for battle for the erstwhile boogey man, chances are subconsciously I know I am a woman who lives in a culture of violence towards women and want to be prepared to fight back.

    How the rape culture gets defined will depend on subculture and socio-economic strata. For example, when I walked alone in Pacoima, a Latino man walked up and grabbed me between my legs from behind about 200 ft from a grocery store just after sundown. I started screaming and throwing a fit and he turned and ran. About a week prior, some young men in a car had warned me not to walk alone in that neighborhood (though I have been safe in other parts of Los Angeles) and in addition to this, my ..um...on again off again lover is Latino by heritage, and attempted to convince me to carry a knife, and informed me he would anally rape any man who raped me. Clearly rape culture is alive and well among working class Latino Americans.

  10. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robopop View Post
    The concept of rape culture used by feminists is extremely narrow and seriously misses the bigger picture, it's framed in a mostly heterosexual male perpetrator on female victim thing.

    A lot of rapist also happen to be psychopaths and these kind of people can give a shit about somebody's rights because they are inherently selfish and lack empathy, they just don't care, some are almost evil personified, they are social predators. That doesn't mean most psychopaths are rapist/murderers/serial killers but they do make up the majority of those populations(accounting for at least half of all violent crimes compared to their very small numbers).
    Um I don't know where you have been hanging out, but ASPD is more common than being a "psychopath" and who is to say narcissists and other personalities don't rape? You really think all rapists are like...Jason Vorhees???? My step dad was a rapist. Not a "psychopath." Bipolar with traits of sexual addiction.

    I think negating rape culture while it still exists is dangerous to women. I don't think women should be blamed for rape, or men when they are victims (less often but still happens) but awareness of living in a rape culture can be imperative to a woman's safety, not victim blaming, but just common sense, like those guys telling me that it wasn't good to walk alone there.

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