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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #221
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i saw on the news a couple weeks ago some womans husband was drugging her at night, raping her and filming it. he walked with just a house arrest. but he could work and leave the house for that. the judge told the woman she should try to forgive him.

    ughh...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  2. #222
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_X View Post
    i saw on the news a couple weeks ago some womans husband was drugging her at night, raping her and filming it. he walked with just a house arrest. but he could work and leave the house for that. the judge told the woman she should try to forgive him.

    ughh...
    Got a link to that?

    That sounds like this uber creepy movie I saw Sleep Tight.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  3. #223
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Or at least don't ask if the controversial topic exists, because then people will start saying it doesn't, and then it won't be a safe space to open up anymore.

    Maybe next time it could go in the Support and Advice subforum?

    Don't get me wrong, though. I think this discussion has been productive and remarkably civil, all things considered. So it's good that it happened the way it did.
    Fair enough. And/or a trigger warning.

  4. #224
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    Or at least don't ask if the controversial topic exists, because then people will start saying it doesn't, and then it won't be a safe space to open up anymore.
    Maybe next time it could go in the Support and Advice subforum?
    Don't get me wrong, though. I think this discussion has been productive and remarkably civil, all things considered. So it's good that it happened the way it did.
    I agree, I just thought the Fe fail was funny.
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  5. #225
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    OH no! Not Aikido. I took a semester of that in college. Me and several of the other students felt like it was more Tai Chi than anything practical. We felt we had learned nothing, except maybe how to balance, and that it was a solid base for modern dance.

    You want something real, MMA, at least the fundamentals. I'm not saying your daughter should be a cagefighter, but cagefighting over the past 10 years has basically eliminated fake from the real martial arts. The martial arts that are quick to learn, and can be devastating, if the need requires.

    I think I had been training Jiu Jitsu for only a month and was drunk and wrestling a buddy of mine that's 240lbs 6'2" (I'm 6'0 about 175). He was much stronger, much bigger, but from simple knowledge of some basic techniques, I was throwing him around like a ragdoll. It was pretty funny.
    Ju Jitsu is good, especially for ground fighting. Don't discount aikido, though. I have a friend who teaches in a school for emotionally disturbed teens, and has had to use it several times to subdue students who became violent, toward her or classmates. She likes it because it is able to subdue without serious injury to the attacker, in her case a child who already has plenty of problems of his/her own.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    What I was saying was that feminists (and left wing educators in general) have neurotically tried to suppress the sense of identity specifically amongst white children, and white male children in particular. You are only allowed to see yourself as an individual, if you identify as a man, or even worse, white, you are demonised. The reason for this is because once you identify this way it immediately becomes obvious that many people around you are not the same, and the reality that people do differ is something the political left wants to eradicate.
    I am white, and I am not sure really what there is to identify with on that level. Whites come from a very broad spectrum of cultures, from Scandinavian, to Irish, to Mediterranian, to Slavic and others in between. White folks I know, myself included, tend to identify more with their specific culture than with the fact that they have light skin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amargith View Post
    Let's play the 'No means yes' games only with people we know well enough to be sure of that meaning; where consent was given earlier and a good enough rapport has been established to actually gauge this stuff properly. If s/he seems ambiguous, leave your 'offer' on the table and give them time to mull it over - they'll come and get you if they want you to continue. There is nothing quite like someone who can walk the line between being completely honest and forward about his wants yet utterly respectful and attentive to the other person's needs - such as time and space to get on the same page or decline politely.
    If a guy doesn't trust a woman enough to be sure she wouldn't make a false rape accusation against him, perhaps he shouldn't be having sex with her.

    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    Do the various phenomena that get classified under "rape culture" exist? Yes. Most definitely.
    Does a "rape culture" exist? Well, this question sounds precise, but it is intentionally vague, though not due to the OP being intentionally vague. The term "rape culture" is deliberately, intentionally vague and intellectually dishonest. Some have already mentioned that it's intended to get people emotionally worked up, and that is so, but even without the emotional impact, it would remain a slippery concept at best. Why else would "belief" be questioned, here?
    Getting people emotionally worked up is counterproductive, here and elsewhere. But we can resist attempts to do that just as we can resist unwanted sexual advances. Terms like "rape culture" are no more dishonest than type designations like INTJ. We understand them as a shorthand notation for a collection of related ideas. The problem comes when we do not agree on what ideas comprise that collection, or how to interpret them. Gingko gave this definition of rape culture in an earlier post here:

    shared belief or idea that condones rape or encourages it. I would also venture to say that it's a subset of "sexual assault culture". It approaches some grey areas when you weigh in sexual coercion, rape jokes, or ignorant callousness about the topic. However, I believe that no matter how localized the culture is, whether it floats around in a criminal syndicate, a group of hood rats, or in a chain of voyeurs who fetishist rape pornography, it technically remains a culture.
    We can call it "rape culture" for short, or something else. Like @Ivy, I personally don't care. As Gingko wrote, it is the ideas that are important and need to be discussed, regardless of what they are called. "Rape culture" by any other name smells just as foul.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  6. #226
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    I don't care what we call it, but I'm weary of every discussion of the cluster of phenomena being derailed by the red herring about what the cluster of phenomena is called.

    This happens with any discussion involving feminism and actually the word feminism itself, so I don't think changing the name is actually going to help.

    Also, sorry @Red Herring, I was referring to an actual red herring, not you.


  7. #227
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Terms like "rape culture" are no more dishonest than type designations like INTJ. We understand them as a shorthand notation for a collection of related ideas. The problem comes when we do not agree on what ideas comprise that collection, or how to interpret them.
    No, the problem is that it's called "rape culture". "INTJ" is not comprised of loaded terms that contain a lot of baggage. Both "rape" and "culture" mean very particular things, and pasted together do NOT mean "a shorthand notation for a collection of ideas." That's the intellectually dishonest part. If you want to have a civil discussion about negative aspects of sexual relations between men and women, calling it "rape culture" is a great way to make sure it never happens.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  8. #228
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    No, the problem is that it's called "rape culture". "INTJ" is not comprised of loaded terms that contain a lot of baggage. Both "rape" and "culture" mean very particular things, and pasted together do NOT mean "a shorthand notation for a collection of ideas." That's the intellectually dishonest part. If you want to have a civil discussion about negative aspects of sexual relations between men and women, calling it "rape culture" is a great way to make sure it never happens.
    This ^

    Spreading the term seems very counterproductive or conducive to actually increasing awareness, which is the tragic irony. It's (rape culture) a divisive term that silently says, you could/probably are a part of the problem and don't even know it and if you disagree you are just unaware/part of the problem. Very circular.

    The recent resurgence of anti porn feminism of late is, imo, related to the term "rape culture" gaining social currency, along with relatively new vernacular like; rapey, rapefest etc.

    Amazon.com: Anti-Porn: The Resurgence of Anti-Pornography Feminism (9781780320250): Julia Long: Books by Dr. Julia Long

    Back in the olden days (80's-90's) we called it rape, period, or raising "rape awareness".
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    No, the problem is that it's called "rape culture". "INTJ" is not comprised of loaded terms that contain a lot of baggage. Both "rape" and "culture" mean very particular things, and pasted together do NOT mean "a shorthand notation for a collection of ideas." That's the intellectually dishonest part. If you want to have a civil discussion about negative aspects of sexual relations between men and women, calling it "rape culture" is a great way to make sure it never happens.
    You really don't have to police the semantics of a concept this much. One way or another, the thing itself is going to be stigmatized, and no amount of polishing a turd will make it not a turd. As @Coriolis said, it would sound just as foul as anything else, since something like "Sexual Assault Culture" would detract from the most poignant part of it, creating a term that patronizes actual victims. I don't really care what you call it either, but since the thing is what it is, nitpicking seems like a waste of time.

    And, frankly, "INTJ" or any other type label could brim with baggage too. Have you seen the INTJ-ENFP Fetishes thread? It would change your life.

  10. #230
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    You really don't have to police the semantics of a concept this much. One way or another, the thing itself is going to be stigmatized,...
    The semantics can mean everything.

    Availability Cascade (a cognitive bias): A self-reinforcing process in which a collective belief gains more and more plausibility through its increasing repetition in public discourse (or "repeat something long enough and it will become true").

    Availability cascade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Reminds me of Patriarchy Theory... but I digress


    The irony is that when early 2nd wave feminists were discussing the "normalization" of rape in our culture and hence the spawn of "rape culture" is that the concept (rape culture) is becoming normalized

    Normalization (sociology) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

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