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View Poll Results: Do you believe rape culture exists?

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  • Yes

    47 72.31%
  • No

    18 27.69%
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  1. #121
    Level 8 Propaganda Bot SpankyMcFly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    I think men could liken women forced into sex to men being forced to go thru a prostate exam against their will, which many men don't eant to go thru despite their health concerns require them to.
    The lack of empathy men have towards women goes both ways. Men don't empathize with other men that were raped while they were in prison for instance, either. Bout 200k victims, not acts, per year, nor are these rapes counted in the FBI's rape stats.

    The most recent PREA (Prison Rape Elimination Act survey) I could find, data collected in 2012, reported in 2013.

    http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/pdca13.pdf

    Where are the "services" for this class of victim? A big fat ZERO, let alone empathy.
    Last edited by SpankyMcFly; 06-01-2014 at 04:30 AM. Reason: added link and last sentence
    "The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents... Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new Dark Age. " - H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #122
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    @Elfboy, I'm referring to this post you made in @greenfairys thread about rape culture:
    Here you actively condone rape. Culture starts on an individual level, formed by learned behaviors, experiences, and shared ideas. To say that it only factors in on a broad, societal level leaves no room for any outliers to be accountable for their beliefs or behaviors. It's impractical in that virtually no society is that homogeneous about such a stigmatized activity. (After all, how many rape victims among that society would go about espousing a pro-rape position?). Honestly, if you're going to operate on such a slapdash definition of rape culture, you may as well say "No" in general, not just for the U.S.
    I still stand by my original position and definition and disagree with you.
    haven't changed my opinion (I've wished far worse things on people than rape, regardless of gender). the difference is, I don't believe 99% of rape victim deserve rape. I think people who commit atrocious crimes deserve to be raped.

    it's not about sexual entitlement or anything of the sort. it's about punishing toxic individuals and traumatizing them into keeping their mouth shut

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  3. #123
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    haven't changed my opinion (I've wished far worse things on people than rape, regardless of gender). the difference is, I don't believe 99% of rape victim deserve rape. I think people who commit atrocious crimes deserve to be raped.

    it's not about sexual entitlement or anything of the sort. it's about punishing toxic individuals and traumatizing them into keeping their mouth shut

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  4. #124
    Senior Member yeghor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Short answer, no I don't think it exists.
    It's normal you don't think objectification and harassment of women as well as men don't exist because you are an ESFP party animal.

  5. #125
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeghor View Post
    It's normal you don't think objectification and harassment of women as well as men don't exist because you are an ESFP party animal.
    Wow way to really unfairly use a type as a scapegoat. His type is what it says it is, not what you think it is. Have you not learned that typing people in this kind of context is a really bad idea?

    Also, you know, Se isn't a bad function. There is no such thing as a bad function. I've been seeing you talk down about it a lot lately, and it's not the reason for all of the worlds ills. Just because you don't identify with it, mix well with it, or like it doesn't mean it wrong or a problem.
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  6. #126
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Then clearly feminism is doing something right, considering the last 20 years must roughly correlate with the heyday of its power. However, a decrease doesn't automatically equal a lack or short supply of something.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpankyMcFly View Post
    Rape Culture is a Feminist narrative, an integral part of their collective and perpetual victimhood that focuses on the male aggressor and female victim while discounting male on male (prison rapes especially), female on female (homosexual couples, which wasn't even considered rape until recently) or the uncommon female on male.

    Rape has always been around and perpetrators have always suffered the consequences (when caught), sometimes with their life. Lynchings, "special" attention in the pen etc. The premise that "our" society accepts this type of behavior is ludicrous. We dislike murders too right? Why does this continue!?" Clearly we live in a murder culture as well.
    Big trigger warning on this I guess.

    We do live in a murder culture. Observe school shootings, murder abroad (war), murder as entertaining and cool in film and videogames, murder as consumable spectacle in the news, and accepted racialized murder-violence in the ghettos. If young people weren't taught that killing is the ultimate way to earn respect (see Elliot), if murder abroad wasn't seen as the hypocrisy it often is, and if we didn't accept the violence in the ghettos as "just the way things are" and instead set out to improve the lives of those living there so they wouldnt be driven to crime, then we wouldn't live in a murder culture. A murder culture is a culture that produces and accepts murder. Before I'm misunderstood, I don't mean accept without qualification, or accept openly, I merely mean, on some tacit but important levels, condemnation lacks.

    Perhaps to be noted; I don't think a murder culture is, in itself, bad. For example, we might imagine a culture in which we would put the freedom of speech above the possible results of said speech. If book published A entertains and enlighten millions, but causes a single person to go out and shoot people, should we ban all books A? In such a situation, I feel, we would "take the hit" and preserve freedom of speech. In other words, their are situations in which a murder culture would be preferable. We might also think of cultures that would accept but not produce murder--and, again, such cultures might be perfectly appealing or expedient to us. After all, killing cops on Payday 2 is highly enjoyable! This of course means I don't think a rape-culture is, in itself, bad. A shocking statement! I will elaborate if people wish.

    This leads to the point I'd like to make about rape culture. It doesn't exist because people are being consciously evil, malicious, selfish, twisted etc. Yes, individual rapists probably fit this description, but rapists are a very small part of rape culture. Rape culture exists because its fun and easy while its opposite is difficult and boring. Now, I'll need a good example of a cause and effect in rape culture in order to explain how this is the case. Thankfully, you've supplied me with a lovely one Spanky! Why is male on male or female on male rape discounted? Because men can't be victims! Now clearly, under certain scenarios, the belief that one cannot be a victim is a terrible thing--rapes being such an example. But, generally, how pleasurable it is to believe one is strong, incapable of harm, special, worthy of respect and command just by merit of being male? And how much more jolly and sexually exciting to believe in male power for the ladies? Who wants to have sex with, or be coupled with, some wimp who can get raped? No wonder we would, generally, deny the possibility of male-on-male and female-on-male rape. It puts an end to the jolly good time we've been having and forces us to ask difficult questions.

    In other words rape culture exists because the great mass that is the perpetrators (all of us) trumps the smaller mass of the verbal victims. Everyone will state that, given the choice between pleasure for themselves and lack of pain for another, a moral person would choose a lack of pain in the other. Yet so few of us give any significant money to charity, because the victims charities attempt to aid can be ignored, denied as worthy, or denied as existing at all. I believe that most people in our society, when faced with such a decision, will make the right choice. But they will do everything to avoid having to make that choice; including denying that a choice needs to be made. This is the denial at the root of rape culture.

  7. #127
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eruca View Post

    This leads to the point I'd like to make about rape culture. It doesn't exist because people are being consciously evil, malicious, selfish, twisted etc. Yes, individual rapists probably fit this description, but rapists are a very small part of rape culture. Rape culture exists because its fun and easy while its opposite is difficult and boring. Now, I'll need a good example of a cause and effect in rape culture in order to explain how this is the case. Thankfully, you've supplied me with a lovely one Spanky! Why is male on male or female on male rape discounted? Because men can't be victims! Now clearly, under certain scenarios, the belief that one cannot be a victim is a terrible thing--rapes being such an example. But, generally, how pleasurable it is to believe one is strong, incapable of harm, special, worthy of respect and command just by merit of being male? And how much more jolly and sexually exciting to believe in male power for the ladies? Who wants to have sex with, or be coupled with, some wimp who can get raped? No wonder we would, generally, deny the possibility of male-on-male and female-on-male rape. It puts an end to the jolly good time we've been having and forces us to ask difficult questions.
    You make an excellent point about feminists(and our society in general) denying that men can be victims(of rape or whathaveyou). Men are not seen as victims, while women are, it doesnt even spring to most people's minds that men can have innocence the way women and children do, that men can simply plea for their own case and not have to say "Im protecting my wife/kids" but rather simply just saying "Im protecting myself", as if the man's life wasnt an end in itself!

    I do think the term "rape culture" is a slogan, an easy to remember formula used by those who want to appeal to some women's sense of being victimized. Not to say there aerent actual victims of rape, but rather that these victims are not exclusively women.

    Now thats not to say there isnt a problem of sexual harassment/machismo in our society, but rather that the term "rape culture" is a slogan and not accurate enough to describe this phenomena(which affects both genders).

  8. #128
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    You make an excellent point about feminists(and our society in general) denying that men can be victims(of rape or whathaveyou). Men are not seen as victims, while women are, it doesnt even spring to most people's minds that men can have innocence the way women and children do, that men can simply plea for their own case and not have to say "Im protecting my wife/kids" but rather simply just saying "Im protecting myself", as if the man's life wasnt an end in itself!

    I do think the term "rape culture" is a slogan, an easy to remember formula used by those who want to appeal to some women's sense of being victimized. Not to say there aerent actual victims of rape, but rather that these victims are not exclusively women.

    Now thats not to say there isnt a problem of sexual harassment/machismo in our society, but rather that the term "rape culture" is a slogan and not accurate enough to describe this phenomena(which affects both genders).
    I'm glad you got something from my post! I would point out that, in that paragraph at least, I didn't mention feminists but "ladies" in general as perpetrators. Of course, feminists are included in the "everyone" I later supply, but I deliberately wouldn't state feminists as perpetrators in particular of rape culture because their being feminist is nearly entirely coincidental and nearly entirely non-causal of said rape-culture affecting men. Their reproduction of male-affecting rape culture is an inheritance of rape culture in general, not a production of feminism in particular. If I put out a fire in my home it doesn't mean I set the fire in the home of my neighbor down the street; we wouldn't blame people for attending to their own suffering first if in a situation in which, for example, the suffering of each is equal. (And dare I say when it comes to rape culture the suffering of women IS worse)

    I would suggest all men who resent the use of the "rape culture" slogan to express female victim potential and occasion to use the "rape culture" slogan to also express male victim potential and occasion without belittling the difficulties of the other party wherever possible. This is a rule feminists sometimes and sometimes do not manage to uphold, and a rule internet MRAs show no interest in upholding at all.

  9. #129
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eruca View Post
    I'm glad you got something from my post! I would point out that, in that paragraph at least, I didn't mention feminists but "ladies" in general as perpetrators. Of course, feminists are included in the "everyone" I later supply, but I deliberately wouldn't state feminists as perpetrators in particular of rape culture because their being feminist is nearly entirely coincidental and nearly entirely non-causal of said rape-culture affecting men. Their reproduction of male-affecting rape culture is an inheritance of rape culture in general, not a production of feminism in particular. If I put out a fire in my home it doesn't mean I set the fire in the home of my neighbor down the street; we wouldn't blame people for attending to their own suffering first if in a situation in which, for example, the suffering of each is equal. (And dare I say when it comes to rape culture the suffering of women IS worse)
    I dont understand what you mean here.

    I would suggest all men who resent the use of the "rape culture" slogan to express female victim potential and occasion to use the "rape culture" slogan to also express male victim potential and occasion without belittling the difficulties of the other party wherever possible. This is a rule feminists sometimes and sometimes do not manage to uphold, and a rule internet MRAs show no interest in upholding at all.
    I wasnt belitteling anyone, and I didnt use the term "rape culture" to describe either male or female victim potential. And yes, Im glad that you mention it is just that - potential - because to say that anyone is a victim, regardless of gender because of "general prevailing attitudes", is of course nonsense. People can be victims but in most cases and most of the the time they exist here on earth they are of course not. Hence I think noone, be it women or men, have any right to claim "special status" because they are potential victims of rape(which we all are, it doesnt make us victims).

  10. #130
    78% me Eruca's Avatar
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    We agree enough that I am contented.

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