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  1. #41
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    In SoCal, I don't know any second generation Mexican-Americans who don't speak English & who aren't very assimilated. They assimilate to the point where they begin to date/marry those of different ethnicities who are also American.
    I'm sure those who don't assimilate more than one generation in exist, but as working/lower middle class person, I don't come across them. Those who don't speak any English & who have not assimilated much are the new immigrants, and that doesn't seem to be unusual with any group that's immigrated in any time period.

    Assimilation seems to be blocked mostly by education, economic class, and legal status. Basically, those people don't have the means or motivation to assimilate.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Countless chauvinist male gangs do not only treat white girls like chewing gum thrown in the street. They treat all girls like chewing gum thrown in the street. But the author of the miserable article could not resist using the word white! And there his cover was blown!

    Our planet has come rather small lately, don't you think? Wake up to the realities of the modern world. Immigration is an asset. It must not and cannot be halted. Globalism is here to stay.
    You are a communist! I can sense it...

    I am a chauvinist white male, guess what I've even got blonde hair and blue eyes, and I'm a nationalist, and I'm damn proud of all of it!

    I am fitter than most people on this planet and I could only run approx. 15km without getting tired, max. This planet is large as hell. Maybe if you did the same you might realise just how much sparse, quite land there is out there. Most of the planet is actually uninhabited. And you know what? I kind of like that. What is actually happening is that small pockets of a small part of the world - Western Europe - happen to be habitable and full of affluent, intelligent, creative people. People in neighbouring parts of the world, due to constant squabbles and their inability to run their own countries properly, now want a piece of the pie, so are invading a land which having no blood connection to. They have no right to be there!

    Third world immigration was almost universally opposed by the peoples of Europe, it was undemocratically forced upon them by governments who had an agenda to push.

    I am going to go out on a limb here: that you, being a communist, find the notion that people are different to each other (despite the fact that this is perfectly natural) abhorrent and want to eliminate these differences by force. It does not matter to you that working class people are the first to suffer from immigration. The political left only cares about race these days, and anyone who opposes regardless of class is just "racist". The fact that racism (a recognition of group differences and a desire to be amongst your own kind) is also natural, likewise is abhorrent to you.

    What feminism is to INFJs, communism is to INFPs....

  3. #43
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    You are a communist! I can sense it...

    I am a chauvinist white male, guess what I've even got blonde hair and blue eyes, and I'm a nationalist, and I'm damn proud of all of it!

    I am fitter than most people on this planet and I could only run approx. 15km without getting tired, max. This planet is large as hell. Maybe if you did the same you might realise just how much sparse, quite land there is out there. Most of the planet is actually uninhabited. And you know what? I kind of like that. What is actually happening is that small pockets of a small part of the world - Western Europe - happen to be habitable and full of affluent, intelligent, creative people. People in neighbouring parts of the world, due to constant squabbles and their inability to run their own countries properly, now want a piece of the pie, so are invading a land which having no blood connection to. They have no right to be there!

    Third world immigration was almost universally opposed by the peoples of Europe, it was undemocratically forced upon them by governments who had an agenda to push.

    You, being a communist, find the notion that people are different to each other (despite the fact that this is perfectly natural) abhorrent and want to eliminate these differences by force. It does not matter to you that working class people are the first to suffer from immigration. The political left only cares about race these days, and anyone who opposes regardless of class is just "racist". The fact that racism (a recognition of group differences and a desire to be amongst your own kind) is also natural, likewise is abhorrent to you.

    What feminism is to INFJs, communism is to INFPs....
    I have some nationalism in me (but nationalism in a broad sense, not tied to a particular country), but I keep this rather hidden most of the time. I don't take pride in it, I take it with pragmatisism (like I try to do with every political stance I hold). Some of it I just flat out do not talk about it and never will. Partly because I have a difficult time justifying it, and people respond to it poorly. Also, like you I am blonde with blue eyes male. Quintesetial "privelaged", and because gay is not usually visable it's not offset. In elementry school I was always the "example" of what Aryan was, ugh... either way cause of that I feel like if I talk about this sort of stuff I am going to get ignored for what I am and it invalidate my opinion. Nevertheless I feel compelled to reply to this.

    I do think that globalization is going to increase more and more over time. In some respects, I see it as a problem, in others I do not. When the world changes, there has to be a balance between hindering unproductive changes, and allowing changes to occur that would become worse if we tried to force it, and these sorts of issues apply in this regard.

    I don't think it's accurate to say that others have no right to be there because they have no blood connection, I'd actually say it's just flat out not correct period. What is more important to me is cultural differences. Physical apperance and blood connection simply results in a knee jerk reaction in some because they don't find it asthetically pleasing to look at. I will not lie there are some countries I would be unhappy to live in. Why? Because I don't enjoy the physical apperance of the races that live there. It's unfortunate but this kind of thing will actually create squabbles between some people just because of something visual, and not being attracted to it.

    Ultimately it's the cultural aspect that I have a problem with. Really it's "the needs to the many outweighing the needs of the few". A nation has old values, old ways of doing things, and they were there first. If they start getting entrance from other cultures that end up reducing that or lowering it, then I can't blame some that hold it from being upset. Others will denounce this (and I am not going to debate it) but there are, in fact, shitty cultures out there that are that should not be added into the mix of some countries, or any country at all. People are always going to self segregate by culture. We can observe this all the time in countries, cities, and forcing them to work together in broad strokes where there are large portions of each do not work. Even when they are kinda similar (see sections of eastern europe).

    Racism exists. I've seen it myself, and around where I grew up. Portions of my family indulged in it quite unfairly and illogically at times. There needs to be balance though. Racism is a problem, but cosmopolitism (if I can make up that word) can also be a problem as well. I think you're being unduly harsh to Wild, but I sort of understand where you're coming from.

    Immigation issues in the US has become such an unwieldy thing that I am at a point where I just go "fuck it!" throw my hands up and just let it happen. I am just going to place myself in locations that will keep me away from any potential bad could come of it (most of it cultural).
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  4. #44
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    Too many people get off expressing their "moral superiority". Those people remind me of this Portlandia skit:

    @Lateralus -- that skit is one of the funniest things I have ever seen. Thanks for posting it!
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  5. #45
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Racism is a 19th century biologic theory now discredited. And as we enter the 21st century, in properous democratic countries, we haven't even begun to address the issues that confront us.

    We have yet to face the fact that in properous democratic countries we are now divided by psychological class.

    This is a site devoted to psychology so we should begin to address the issue of psychological class.
    You're right. There are people who like to exercise their own smug superiority by foisting wholesale sociological changes on the rest of society, from which they exempt themselves; which people tend to congregate in governmental, educational, and non-profit sectors, and who subsist on tax money taken by force from others, without contributing anything of economic value; and then there are the people who are the beneficiaries of the smuggles, who benefit from wealth-transfer programs in return for voting as a monolithic unit; then there are the people who produce wealth, who are taxed heavily and villified as haters.

    Very insightful of you.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  6. #46
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Racial difference leads to cultural difference, the two are connected to each other.

    To go near to achieving this you would need extremely authoritarian government that strongly discouraged any identity unrelated to the state. Some form of communism. The problem with this is that the economy quickly stagnates in a communist society. It is a temporary solution to the issue, as nearly a century in experimenting with communism has shown. I am also sure that you wouldn't enjoy living in such a country any more than I would, the Soviet Union was more repressive artistically and intellectually than any other country I can think of, for a very long time anyway.
    @SilentMusings --

    Try reading up on the history of the Balkans (Bosnia/Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, and environs; the former Yugoslavia. Holy sh*t, if you want massive killings and torture by all sides, by people who look indistinguishable to anyone from outside the area...)

    For Communism, try also reading up on the wars of the Red and White Russians, as well as the Holodomor. Or Mao's Red Guards.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  7. #47
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Social Darwinism as distinct from Natural Selection has been around since the middle of the 19th century.

    Social Darwinism gave rise to economic exploitation by the Robber Barons in the USA, and gave rise to a Social Darwin theory of race leading to Eugenics, first in the USA, then in Europe.

    And interestingly Social Darwinism gave rise to Christian Fundamentalism for the first time in the USA.
    @Mole --

    Christian fundamentalism dates from the Great Awakenings of the 1700s.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  8. #48
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Countless chauvinist male gangs do not only treat white girls like chewing gum thrown in the street. They treat all girls like chewing gum thrown in the street. But the author of the miserable article could not resist using the word white! And there his cover was blown!

    Our planet has come rather small lately, don't you think? Wake up to the realities of the modern world. Immigration is an asset. It must not and cannot be halted. Globalism is here to stay.
    @wildcat --

    You are utterly wrong. Note for example that nobody is trying to enforce multiculturalism on Japan on ethnic grounds, or on Saudi Arabia on religious grounds.

    And it's fun to notice you using the "dog-whistle" buzz words of "realities" and "modern" and "must not and cannot" and "here to stay".
    If it "cannot" be halted, then there is no need to insist on "must not" for it is inevitable. This insistence argues either dishonesty or desperation
    on the part of the proponents.

    You know, Thalidomide was once the latest, greatest thing. So was the Edsel. Mere newness is no guarantee of efficacy or correctness.

    Nice try, though.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  9. #49
    The Typing Tabby grey_beard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    In SoCal, I don't know any second generation Mexican-Americans who don't speak English & who aren't very assimilated. They assimilate to the point where they begin to date/marry those of different ethnicities who are also American.
    I'm sure those who don't assimilate more than one generation in exist, but as working/lower middle class person, I don't come across them. Those who don't speak any English & who have not assimilated much are the new immigrants, and that doesn't seem to be unusual with any group that's immigrated in any time period.

    Assimilation seems to be blocked mostly by education, economic class, and legal status. Basically, those people don't have the means or motivation to assimilate.
    @OrangeAppled --
    You forgot economic *mobility* as well; it can become a catch-22.
    "Love never needs time. But friendship always needs time. More and more and more time, up to long past midnight." -- The Crime of Captain Gahagan

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  10. #50
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grey_beard View Post
    @Mole --

    Christian fundamentalism dates from the Great Awakenings of the 1700s.
    The word, Fundamentalism, was first coined by Protestants in the late 19th century in the USA in response to Darwin's Natural Selection .

    Of course today, the word, Fundamentalism, is applied to other religions as well as USA Protestantism, such as Islam and even Hinduism.

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