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  1. #31
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Within a chimp community, a male hierarchy, ordered more or less in linear fashion, establishes social standing, with one male at the top or "alpha" position. All adult males dominate all females, although females have their own hierarchy, albeit much less straightforward.
    Other factors that determine dominance and social status are physical fitness, aggressiveness, skill at fighting, ability to form coalitions, intelligence, and other personality traits. Status is either maintained or changed through communication and social interactions, such as physical competition and grooming.
    About Chimpanzees

    Humans aren't that different. Many of the factors, such as grooming and personality traits, apply to both humans and chimps.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If wealth followed nature, it would distribute itself evenly like the air in your office, not consolidate in your coffee cup like the wealth in the hands of the 1%. Yes, there will always be income inequality. To large degree, this is just a reflection of people's priorities. Not everyone places wealth above all other things. I can't think of anyone, however, who doesn't want to have at least enough to have the necessities of life in reasonable security.
    Obviously, but not everyone is going to be equally capable even in a situation of equal opportunity. There is feedback as well, lower achievers aren't going to be able to provide their children with as many opportunities in life as a result, regardless of anyone else's actions. An equal distribution of wealth would be more unnatural than it being accumulated in the hands of a few individuals, though I agree that that is a bit extreme as well.

  3. #33
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Such Irony View Post
    There's plenty of people being themselves who can't make ends meet. It could be due to laziness, it could be bad luck, it could be their talents aren't useful in an economic sense, it could be their own stupidity, etc.

    In other animal species, natural selection would see to it that the more 'fit' survive and pass on their genes while the less 'fit' die out and over time their genes disappear. Other species don't consciously think about how to accomodate the 'weaker' members into their society. Humans are different in that we can contemplate such things and we can feel compassion for the 'weaker' members and try to integrate them into society as best as we can without compromising society. It's a gift that our species has and we shouldn't just leave the 'weaker' members to 'rot' unless they do something utterly despicable like serial killing with no remorse.
    I completely agree with you. My explanation was descriptive rather than prescriptive.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  4. #34
    Blind Guardian Haven's Avatar
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    "Nature is neither kind nor cruel, but indifferent"

    full quote:

    “Nature is not cruel, pitiless, indifferent. This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous — indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose.”

    --Richard Dawkins
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  5. #35
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If wealth followed nature, it would distribute itself evenly like the air in your office, not consolidate in your coffee cup like the wealth in the hands of the 1%.
    Quite. It was a particularly weak ( self-defeating) analogy. Just goes to show physicists make poor economists, I guess.
    More surprising that they should succumb to naturalistic fallacies...or indeed, imagine that financial wealth has anything at all to do with "nature"...though perhaps it shouldn't be.
    Yes, there will always be income inequality. To large degree, this is just a reflection of people's priorities.
    You think? I'm sure the poor will be interested to learn that they just have the wrong set of priorities.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    If wealth followed nature, it would distribute itself evenly like the air in your office, not consolidate in your coffee cup like the wealth in the hands of the 1%. Yes, there will always be income inequality. To large degree, this is just a reflection of people's priorities. Not everyone places wealth above all other things. I can't think of anyone, however, who doesn't want to have at least enough to have the necessities of life in reasonable security.
    The argument doesn't state that wealth follows nature just like the natural air distribution in a room, nor does it say anything about people's priorities. It states that it is just as likely for all the air in a room to condense inside a cup in that room as it is for wealth to be distributed equally in a society.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
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  7. #37
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    Bullshit.
    Care to explain why, or are you content with not backing up anything you say?

  8. #38
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal12345 View Post
    The argument doesn't state that wealth follows nature just like the natural air distribution in a room, nor does it say anything about people's priorities. It states that it is just as likely for all the air in a room to condense inside a cup in that room as it is for wealth to be distributed equally in a society.
    If the "argument" is just that it's unlikely, then it's not an argument at all. We tend to expect more from arguments that a statement of the self-evident. Perhaps we expect too much...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  9. #39
    Senior Member AzulEyes's Avatar
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    I'm tagged in this thread apparently, but where?

    It's natural not because of any of the afformentioned reasons. And it's not a balancing act or any of that crap.

    This life is a TEST by our Creator and Sustainer.

    Some are tested with RICHES.

    Some are tested with FAMINE.

    Some are tested with CHILDREN.

    Some are tested with ILLNESS.

    At the end of the day, our Creator wants to see how we fair treating those less fortunate than we are. It doesn't mean you cannot enjoy your riches- but you must share. If you have nothing- such is your test as well. The story of the man with nothing giving half of his nothing to someone else with nothing- and so on and so forth.

    Sometimes people overthink things. And it really does come down to justice / fairness / well treatment of humanity.

    It's not okay to think "it's okay" that people starve to death because it's part of some "natural order of things." That's a pompous, selfish world outlook that is your test.
    It takes courage to grow up and become who you really are. ~e.e. cummings

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  10. #40
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AzulEyes View Post
    Some are tested with RICHES.

    Some are tested with FAMINE.
    And I would really rather be tested with the former.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

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