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  1. #31
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Please give some proof about the "alarmist forecast" having been discredited that is not backed by some corporation that benefits from the oil/gas industry. I also don't understand your last sentence where you talk about "production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels...."
    Here's one: U.N. climate chiefs apologize for glacier error - CNN.com

    The point being that there is only consensus that climate change is occurring and that human activity is partly responsible, there is no scientific consensus that such change will create imminent conditions worse than the unintended consequences of converting to alternative fuels before doing so is economically viable. In the meantime, this oil discovery is good news. For the rest, see my response to Typh0n.

    Edit: And FWIW, I have no problem with subsidizing research into alternative fuel sources as a precautionary measure.

  2. #32
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    @lowtech redneck: Thanks for the article on the over-estimated melting rate of Himalyan glaciers; however, the 2007 report states that the IPCC still firmly believes in glacial melt around the world being a significant concern.

    This CNN article you linked to was from 2010 but doesn't discredit the overall data of glacial melting due to climate change.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
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  3. #33
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    The Jaw-Dropping Potential in This American Oil Patch Could Change the World

    "The pride and joy of Saudi Arabia's oil industry has been the Ghawar oil field, which has been recognized as the largest in the world ever since its discovery in 1948. That is, perhaps, until now. A shale oil formation deep beneath the plains of West Texas has been sitting right under our noses for years, and Pioneer Natural Resources (NYSE: PXD ) estimates that it could usurp the Ghawar field's 60-year reign. "

    "Estimates of the Permian's reserves were somewhere in the 10 billion-12 billion barrel range. That's nothing to scoff at, but it certainly didn't come close to the 71 billion barrels in that single formation under the Saudi desert. Apparently, those oilmen simply didn't look hard enough, because they missed the rest of the oil in the Permian.

    All 75 billion barrels of it."
    I would love if this can get the US disentangled from the Arab world and back to dealing with its own issues... but I do think we need to be careful of the environmental effects as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Your obvious short-sightedness about the effects on the environment and climate change is mind boggling. Other countries, like Germany, are expanding their use of alternative fuel sources while the U.S. remains stuck in the past and will be the downfall of the Earth's increasing sea level rise.

    I am beginning to think you are a troll for the GOP
    I may be mistaken, but doesn't Germany burn coal for a significant proportion of its power needs?
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  4. #34
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    @lowtech redneck: Thanks for the article on the over-estimated melting rate of Himalyan glaciers; however, the 2007 report states that the IPCC still firmly believes in glacial melt around the world being a significant concern.

    This CNN article you linked to was from 2010 but doesn't discredit the overall data of glacial melting due to climate change.
    It discredits the claim that the Himalyan glacier will melt by 2035.

    According to the article, this claim was made by a scientist in 1999 who said that Himalayan glaciers would mostly melt within 40 years time. The article says there simply isnt any evidence to support this is true.

    It also says it shouldnt change the belief that climate change is real.

    My position; Im all for finding alternative energy solutions and funding research to devellop such energies, but I dont think the Earth will be destroyed if we dont find such alternative soltuons right away, and by right away, I mean within a few decades. Theres no doubt climate change is happening, and that a few scientists out there are claiming it isnt because their "research" is funded by oil companies, but I dont believe we are in any real danger because of climate change right now either.

  5. #35
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    I would love if this can get the US disentangled from the Arab world and back to dealing with its own issues... but I do think we need to be careful of the environmental effects as well.



    I may be mistaken, but doesn't Germany burn coal for a significant proportion of its power needs?
    That I don't know (at the bolded) but their expansion of alternative fuel sources is impressive:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewa...rgy_in_Germany
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

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  6. #36
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I am beginning to think you are a troll for the GOP
    Upon further reflection, that wasn't a very nice thing to say...you are probably more of the libertarian persuasion anyway, so sorry for that.

    And some interesting points were brought up in the discussion.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  7. #37
    Senior Member OptoGypsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hive View Post
    Only half the world is teflon and asbestos

    The rest is burnable
    Drill Baby Drill
    Burn Baby Burn
    At least until the human race dies of because planet earth gets pissed of or until we find/create a better solution than oil.

  8. #38
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    The evidence IS overwhelming. Holy fucking shit this is impossible. How can you be this impossible to reason with? How can someone be this set in their ways that it's impossible to even gain one inch of ground.
    You clearly have not researched the topic and you don't understand how messed up the climate science community is. The evidence is overwhelming that there hasn't been any warming for the past 17 years and the evidence is also overwhelming that the climate models used to forecast catastrophic sea level increases and weather patterns are bullshit.

    Read this: Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover

    "Study says warmer temperatures are largely due to natural 300-year cycles"

    "The graph shown above, based on a version published by Dr Ed Hawkins of Reading University on his blog, Climate Lab Book, reveals that actual temperatures are now below the predictions made by almost all the 138 models on which the IPCC relies."

    "The pause means there has been no statistically significant increase in world average surface temperatures since the beginning of 1997, despite the models’ projection of a steeply rising trend.

    According to Dr Hawkins, the divergence is now so great that the world’s climate is cooler than what the models collectively predicted with ‘five to 95 per cent certainty’."

    As Lindzen so accurately stated, belief in global warming is a pathology, a cult mentality that's not based on empirical evidence. Stop funding this nonsense immediately.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #39
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    You clearly have not researched the topic and you don't understand how messed up the climate science community is. The evidence is overwhelming that there hasn't been any warming for the past 17 years and the evidence is also overwhelming that the climate models used to forecast catastrophic sea level increases and weather patterns are bullshit.

    Read this: Global warming 'pause' may last for 20 more years and Arctic sea ice has already started to recover

    "Study says warmer temperatures are largely due to natural 300-year cycles"

    "The graph shown above, based on a version published by Dr Ed Hawkins of Reading University on his blog, Climate Lab Book, reveals that actual temperatures are now below the predictions made by almost all the 138 models on which the IPCC relies."

    "The pause means there has been no statistically significant increase in world average surface temperatures since the beginning of 1997, despite the models’ projection of a steeply rising trend.

    According to Dr Hawkins, the divergence is now so great that the world’s climate is cooler than what the models collectively predicted with ‘five to 95 per cent certainty’."

    As Lindzen so accurately stated, belief in global warming is a pathology, a cult mentality that's not based on empirical evidence. Stop funding this nonsense immediately.
    No. It is YOU that doesn't understand JACK SHIT about what is going on. Your kind is actually harming the world with this line of thinking. You're picking sources that back your flimsy claim. Did you not see the recent report sent out by the meterological association on long term forecasts? Let me guess; that's bullshit too. You don't listen to anything that has clout. There are other studies that say the opposite of what you've provided. I'm not going to even bother siting them though because you reject EVERY SINGLE THING I ever cite!

    You know what is a pathology and cult metality? The joke for a piece of shit that is the tea party. Every single one of them is a lying sack of shit, and what's worse is a lot of them believe their own bullshit lies and are completely unaware of it. It's amazing! They are attempting to undo YEARS of progress that the world is trying to make, and there is absolutely NO reasoning with them. They are utterly impervious to any kind of reason at all, which is why they insight so much anger in so many people. They're not trying to stop progress, they're actively trying to REVERSE it! It's infuriating. Thankfully the public is starting to see how absolutely idiotic and insane the lot of them are. Not that the majority hasn't from the get go, but it's getting more traction. If there was anyoneone, or any group I'd want to rip voting rights and influence from, it's them, because they actually HARM things. You profess your hatred of "lefty's" quite frequently, and I hold my tongue about what I think about the tea party, but not now. That party is full of nothing but blithering idioits who focus on nothing but cold profit, aiding big business (which largely IS the biggest problem the world has), and giving no care or sympathy to anything but the bottom line. Luckily they are in the low (and getting lower minority). Oh, and you can take solace in this: I'm a liberal gay atheist living in the pacific northwest working in academia (chemist) and likely to make my career in it, and if not work for the CDC or NIH who thinks Elizabeth Warren is the best thing to happen to congress and politics in several decades (and I actively support her), who DESPISES the tea party and everything about them, and if they are still around in the coming years will likely actively work against them and all of their inane bullshit. Basically, I am the exact manifestaion of everything you hate. It's been kinda funny really, just when I think there couldn't possibly be another thing about myself that you'd end up hating, you list one off. Well golly! Ain't that just nifty.

    You can't refute the claim I made. I ALREADY SAID HOW. I gave you the PREMIRE source of everything. You lose. End of story, if you fail to see that then wow is that beyond pathetic. This argument is no different than trying to prove to my anti-vaccine mother that, no, they do not cause austism, and are actually GOOD for the population. Yet, she'll reject any source I give her because it's "corrupt". There isn't reasoning with these people. There isn't any reasoning with you.

    There is no reasoning with you either. I am utterly flabbergasted how impossible it is to talk to you. If only you knew how many people here despise you and your views, but let me guess; you wouldn't care. That's actually part of the problem! I have met stubborn unyielding people in my life, but you take the cake. You claim you are easily moved? HAHAHAHA! That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.
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  10. #40
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    I don't disagree that the climate is changing, or even that human activity plays (some degree of) a role in it.

    What I question, is the accuracy of climate predictions and sea levels 100 years from now, when meteorologically, you can't tell me whether or not its going to rain next week.

    I question proposed solutions that can't hope to have any material affect on the problem. Yes I understand that steps need to be taken to try and minimize human impact on climate, I just disagree with the assertion that it is acceptable for those solutions to involve humanity forcibly bypassing further technological advancement.

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