User Tag List

First 12345 Last

Results 21 to 30 of 57

  1. #21
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    Your obvious short-sightedness about the effects on the environment and climate change is mind boggling. Other countries, like Germany, are expanding their use of alternative fuel sources while the U.S. remains stuck in the past and will be the downfall of the Earth's increasing sea level rise.
    So I take it you are against Keystone?

    The existence of climate change is a scientific consensus (with the caveat that climatology is perhaps the most uncertain hard science out there), but the extent to which it is a problem requiring extreme reduction in living standards and individual liberty is not, and pretty much every alarmist forecast has been discredited. The fact of the matter is that there is currently no other efficient energy resource, and efforts to impose limits are counter-productive (in addition to economically harmful and intrusive on individual liberty) because production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels of greenhouse gasses per unit of production.

    Incidentally, Germany's green energy policies are also counter-productive:

    And have also contributed to unhealthy levels of dependence on Russia, to the detriment of free peoples (and those aspiring to become free) in Eastern Europe

  2. #22
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,096

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    So I take it you are against Keystone?

    The existence of climate change is a scientific consensus (with the caveat that climatology is perhaps the most uncertain hard science out there), but the extent to which it is a problem requiring extreme reduction in living standards and individual liberty is not, and pretty much every alarmist forecast has been discredited. The fact of the matter is that there is currently no other efficient energy resource, and efforts to impose limits are counter-productive (in addition to economically harmful and intrusive on individual liberty) because production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels of greenhouse gasses per unit of production.
    Trying to understand what you mean by that.

    Could you elaborate?

  3. #23
    Riva
    Guest

    Default

    Drill baby drill.

    I want to see Obama say that.

  4. #24
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    3,096

    Default

    In any case however, this is most likely good news.

    Currently there is no environmentally friendly solution to oil, during the time being that one is being devellopped, which could still take some time, this means less dependence on Russia for EU countries.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Wow, so much for that peak oil nonsense. Drill baby, Drill!! Let's go back to $2/gallon gasoline.
    This will not bring gasoline down to $2 per gallon. Increasing demand in China will put a stop to that notion. I mean, it's not like this oil is guaranteed to stay in the US. It'll go to the global market like all other oil. The only advantage is we don't have to deploy the military or prop up a brutal dictator to secure its production.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  6. #26
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
    The only advantage is we don't have to deploy the military or prop up a brutal dictator to secure its production.
    A sad day for John McCain.

  7. #27
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INFj
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Posts
    428

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    So I take it you are against Keystone?

    The existence of climate change is a scientific consensus (with the caveat that climatology is perhaps the most uncertain hard science out there), but the extent to which it is a problem requiring extreme reduction in living standards and individual liberty is not, and pretty much every alarmist forecast has been discredited. The fact of the matter is that there is currently no other efficient energy resource, and efforts to impose limits are counter-productive (in addition to economically harmful and intrusive on individual liberty) because production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels of greenhouse gasses per unit of production.

    Incidentally, Germany's green energy policies are also counter-productive:

    And have also contributed to unhealthy levels of dependence on Russia, to the detriment of free peoples (and those aspiring to become free) in Eastern Europe
    Please give some proof about the "alarmist forecast" having been discredited that is not backed by some corporation that benefits from the oil/gas industry. I also don't understand your last sentence where you talk about "production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels...."

    Thanks for the link of the German political satire show but I don't know how this "green energy" tax is viewed by other Germans. I think so much solar energy being produced in Germany is quite impressive and admirable but again, I don't know how this tax is viewed by the majority in Germany...if others on the forum are German, please share.

    I also think it is misleading to think that the oil produced from the XL Pipeline and this other large oil reserve will reduce gas prices or even remain in the U.S. I am not so naïve as to think all gas/oil production must stop but I would like equal amounts of investment/research/subsidies go to alternative fuel development.

    To deny climate change is ignorant and idiotic...the same techniques used by the tobacco industry to discount the harmful effects of smoking were employed by the climate change deniers where climate data was politicized and discounted. There are some terrific documentaries that illustrate this but I am too lazy at the moment to look them up.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

  8. #28
    Senior Member Lateralus's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    3w4
    Posts
    6,276

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by statuesquechica View Post
    I also don't understand your last sentence where you talk about "production will simply shift to countries that produce much higher levels...."
    The impact of this phenomenon depends on how much of a factor energy prices are in the total cost of production, but if energy prices are high enough, manufacturing will tend to move to countries that have lower energy prices in an effort to reduce costs. Basically, if the US was to adopt energy policies that caused energy prices to rise, some companies would just move their production to China (or some other country that doesn't care about the issue) to avoid that impact.
    "We grow up thinking that beliefs are something to be proud of, but they're really nothing but opinions one refuses to reconsider. Beliefs are easy. The stronger your beliefs are, the less open you are to growth and wisdom, because "strength of belief" is only the intensity with which you resist questioning yourself. As soon as you are proud of a belief, as soon as you think it adds something to who you are, then you've made it a part of your ego."

  9. #29
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    MBTI
    INTP
    Posts
    3,705

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Trying to understand what you mean by that.

    Could you elaborate?
    1.) Different degrees of regulation, efficiency and convenience of availability pertaining to energy resources and production mean that some countries emit more greenhouse gasses (as well as more conventional pollutants) for the same amount of energy produced or economic production achieved. For example, China and India emit more than four times as much carbon dioxide relative to GDP than the United States, which in turn produces about 1.5 times as much as the European Union*. I've seen comparisons of greenhouse gasses emitted for equivalent categories of manufacturing as well, with similar patterns emerging, though I can't seem to find them right now.

    2.) If environmental regulations and penalties affect the competitive advantage of producing products in high-income countries emitting less greenhouse gasses per unit of production, then production that is still in demand ** is likely to move to developing countries that will emit more greenhouse gasses while producing the same thing.

    *
    List of countries by ratio of GDP to carbon dioxide emissions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    **The demand for some goods will simply decline due decreased prosperity in high-income countries, but probably not enough to avoid a net increase in global greenhouse gas emissions.

  10. #30
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INFj
    Enneagram
    9w8 sx/so
    Posts
    428

    Default

    ^@Lateralus: Thanks, that makes sense...as we have seen in all other sectors of industry with outsourcing.

    @lowtech redneck: You bring up some really good points in your post...the yin and yang of energy production and the net increase in emissions. Thanks for the link.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
    From up and down and still somehow
    It's life's illusions I recall
    I really don't know life at all

    Joni Mitchell

Similar Threads

  1. Massive Oil Reserve Discovered In Australia
    By Mal12345 in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 07-17-2013, 03:55 PM
  2. Largest Free Clinic Ever in LA... Story Revealed...
    By nomadic in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-29-2010, 06:31 AM
  3. World's largest snake found dead
    By ajblaise in forum The Fluff Zone
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 06-01-2009, 11:06 AM
  4. Super Flu Virus Ravages Mexico, 8 Infections Discovered in CA and TX, US on Alert
    By cogdecree in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 04-28-2009, 05:03 PM
  5. New World Order/globalization, America's role in changing international power
    By Risen in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 11-17-2008, 03:48 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO