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  1. #11
    Senior Member statuesquechica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Oh we crossed that years ago. The planet is toast. Not likely in our lifetime, but not too long after it. I don't think about it anymore because it causes me a lot of really bad stress. It's a reason actually why I don't plan to have kids actually.

    I don't have the answer to solve this. Money and many of those in power stand in the way. What gets those to move is situations becoming very severe. The problem is with this stuff when that point is reached it's too late. I honestly am of the opinion that it can't be completely solved.
    I am the eternal optimist, but I tend to agree with you on the above...we probably have passed the tipping point as we can see with the advanced melting of the Arctic ice that was so graphically shown.

    The powers that be really have no interest in solving the problem because it goes against their financial best interests.
    I've looked at life from both sides now
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  2. #12
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    What we need is an international Manhattan Project for cheap renewable energy. And once the price for renewable energy falls below oil and gas, we can stop producing greenhouse gas.

  3. #13
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    If you deny climate change effected by humans, then you don't understand what science is. This is no different than the idiocy of folks who think vaccines are linked to autism.
    And if you ask a bunch of cryptozoologists if they believe in Bigfoot, you'll get a similar consensus. Consensus is not evidence and people who tout consensus don't understand the scientific process. The only thing that matters is empirical evidence and the fact is, the planet hasn't warmed in the past 17 years.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  4. #14
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    And if you ask a bunch of cryptozoologists if they believe in Bigfoot, you'll get a similar consensus. Consensus is not evidence and people who tout consensus don't understand the scientific process. The only thing that matters is empirical evidence and the fact is, the planet hasn't warmed in the past 17 years.
    Cryptozoology is not a respected science, climatology is. Poor example.

    And yes, in this area, consensus is evidence. In A LOT of things with science, consensus is what validates something. The planet is warming, and that's not the only metric that is used to measure climate changes. We can observe the effects of it.
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  5. #15
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    Cryptozoology is not a respected science, climatology is.
    Climatology is not respected either.

    "When later generations learn about climate science, they will classify the beginning of the twenty-first century as an embarrassing chapter in the history of science. They will wonder about our time and use it as a warning of how the core values and criteria of science were allowed little by little to be forgotten, as the actual research topic of climate change turned into a political and social playground." Atte Korhola, Professor of Environmental Change, University of Helsinki

    "Alarmism feeds polarization. Climate zealots want to burn heretics of global warming on a stick. Others only see incompetence and conspiracy in climate research, and nepotism in climate policy. A polarized debate is not conducive to enlightened policy in an area as complex as climate change – although we only need a carbon tax, and a carbon tax only, that applies to all emissions and gradually and predictably rises over time. The IPCC missed an opportunity to restore itself as a sober authority, accepted (perhaps only grudgingly) by most." Richard Tol, IPCC scientist

    “The widespread obsession with Global-Warming-Climate-Change, in opposition to all factual evidence, is quite incredible.” David Kear, former Director-General of NZ Scientific Research

    "In the U.S. in the early 20th century, the eugenics movement had coopted the science of human genetics and was driving a political agenda. The movement achieved the Immigration Restriction Act of 1923, as well as forced sterilization laws in several states. The movement became discredited by Nazi atrocities, but the American consequences survived well into the 1960s.

    In contrast to Lysenkoism, Global Warming has a global constituency, and has successfully coopted almost all of institutional science. However, the cracks in the scientific claims for catastrophic warming are, I think, becoming much harder for the supporters to defend. Despite official whitewashes, the Climategate scandal was a clear manifestation of pathology. Opposition to alarm is having some impact among certain groups including physicists. Official reports from several countries (including Norway and India) have taken distinctly un-alarming positions. And even Ralph Cicerone, president of America’s National Academy of Sciences, has publically eschewed climate catastrophism." Richard Lindzen, MIT

    I'd like to point out that no other area of research depends on "consensus" as evidence. The consensus argument is anti-science and is designed to shut down discussion. I'd also like to point out several examples where consensus has changed. Today, there is consensus that stomach ulcers are caused by a bacterium. That was not the case. The consensus in the past was that ulcers were caused by stress.

    There was consensus that saturated fats caused heart disease. That consensus has been shattered as well.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Drill baby, Drill!! Let's go back to $2/gallon gasoline.
    haha that's cute.
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    At heart, I’ll always be a bleeding heart liberal.

  7. #17
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    Climatology is not respected either.

    "When later generations learn about climate science, they will classify the beginning of the twenty-first century as an embarrassing chapter in the history of science. They will wonder about our time and use it as a warning of how the core values and criteria of science were allowed little by little to be forgotten, as the actual research topic of climate change turned into a political and social playground." Atte Korhola, Professor of Environmental Change, University of Helsinki

    "Alarmism feeds polarization. Climate zealots want to burn heretics of global warming on a stick. Others only see incompetence and conspiracy in climate research, and nepotism in climate policy. A polarized debate is not conducive to enlightened policy in an area as complex as climate change – although we only need a carbon tax, and a carbon tax only, that applies to all emissions and gradually and predictably rises over time. The IPCC missed an opportunity to restore itself as a sober authority, accepted (perhaps only grudgingly) by most." Richard Tol, IPCC scientist

    “The widespread obsession with Global-Warming-Climate-Change, in opposition to all factual evidence, is quite incredible.” David Kear, former Director-General of NZ Scientific Research

    "In the U.S. in the early 20th century, the eugenics movement had coopted the science of human genetics and was driving a political agenda. The movement achieved the Immigration Restriction Act of 1923, as well as forced sterilization laws in several states. The movement became discredited by Nazi atrocities, but the American consequences survived well into the 1960s.

    In contrast to Lysenkoism, Global Warming has a global constituency, and has successfully coopted almost all of institutional science. However, the cracks in the scientific claims for catastrophic warming are, I think, becoming much harder for the supporters to defend. Despite official whitewashes, the Climategate scandal was a clear manifestation of pathology. Opposition to alarm is having some impact among certain groups including physicists. Official reports from several countries (including Norway and India) have taken distinctly un-alarming positions. And even Ralph Cicerone, president of America’s National Academy of Sciences, has publically eschewed climate catastrophism." Richard Lindzen, MIT

    I'd like to point out that no other area of research depends on "consensus" as evidence. The consensus argument is anti-science and is designed to shut down discussion. I'd also like to point out several examples where consensus has changed. Today, there is consensus that stomach ulcers are caused by a bacterium. That was not the case. The consensus in the past was that ulcers were caused by stress.

    There was consensus that saturated fats caused heart disease. That consensus has been shattered as well.

    There could be studies that come along in the future that show that climate scientists were wrong, but that has not happened, so we must operate under the assumption that it is correct.

    How you can deny the clout of all of these orginizations based off mountains of data and research is absolutely beyond me. The reason a consensus is sought is because climate science became unfairly politically charged decades ago, and it's a step that needs to be taken to get politics out of science and let the science be what it is.

    This is why I say that people who are think climate change is a fraud, do not understand what science is, or how science works.
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  8. #18
    deplorable basketcase Tellenbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard
    so we must operate under the assumption that it is correct.
    A true scientist would suspend judgement until the evidence became overwhelming.

    How you can deny the clout of all of these orginizations based off mountains of data and research is absolutely beyond me.
    What mountains of data? There hasn't been any warming the past 17 years. Which climate model predicted this? Find me any global warming paper that predicted this 10 years ago. Which organizations are you referring to? You mean those nutjobs at the IPCC? These are a bunch of lefty Marxists who're providing justification for redistributionist policies. They've admitted it. Dr. Michael Mann has endorsed a political candidate.

    This is why I say that people who are think climate change is a fraud, do not understand what science is, or how science works.
    Have you even read "The Hockey Stick Illusion"?

    1. Do you understand how Michael Mann came up with the infamous hockey stick graph?
    2. Do you know why Mann refuses to disclose his methods?
    3. Do you understand how paleoclimatologists are allegedly able to tell us what the temperatures were 10,000 years ago?

    I doubt it. Most climate change alarmists believe on faith and don't understand the "science" behind it.
    Senator Rand Paul is alive because of modern medicine and because his attacker punches like a girl.

  9. #19

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  10. #20
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tellenbach View Post
    A true scientist would suspend judgement until the evidence became overwhelming.

    What mountains of data? There hasn't been any warming the past 17 years. Which climate model predicted this? Find me any global warming paper that predicted this 10 years ago. Which organizations are you referring to? You mean those nutjobs at the IPCC? These are a bunch of lefty Marxists who're providing justification for redistributionist policies. They've admitted it. Dr. Michael Mann has endorsed a political candidate.

    Have you even read "The Hockey Stick Illusion"?

    1. Do you understand how Michael Mann came up with the infamous hockey stick graph?
    2. Do you know why Mann refuses to disclose his methods?
    3. Do you understand how paleoclimatologists are allegedly able to tell us what the temperatures were 10,000 years ago?

    I doubt it. Most climate change alarmists believe on faith and don't understand the "science" behind it.

    The evidence IS overwhelming. Holy fucking shit this is impossible. How can you be this impossible to reason with? How can someone be this set in their ways that it's impossible to even gain one inch of ground. I have showed you the PREMIERE source of data for this. NASA. They connect to pretty much every other scientific institution that has done work in this. You can not get any better than that. It connects to all the research, all the evidence. If you reject that, then there TRULY, will never, under any circumstances, be any reasoning with you. You reject the most respected and credible sources that there is. The most solidifed evidence we have. To be perfectly honest, your responses to this, and this last one in particular is making me LIVID, because this line of thinking has a tangible harmful effect on the function of the planet. It's actually dangerous IMO.

    You don't except credible data and sources. I have yet to see you do that once. This though... this takes the cake.

    I'm going to blow a total gasket and break a shitton of forum rules if I don't stop here, so I have to.
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