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  1. #261
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Lemme just say this.

    While there is something wrong with the way some men see women in our society, there is also something wrong with the way some women see men. All Im saying is, can we at least admit that the way women are educated by society and by media to treat men is often defective? That it is not only men whos view of the opposite sex is defective?

    Not sure what that has to do with the killer - hes fully responsible for his own actions, not men or women. But to say that everything is the fault of "male entitlement" and "misogyny", is nothing less than absurd. I could just as easily argue that some women "drove" him to commit the crime, and it would be no less absurd.

    Also the arguement about this being a "white male" problem is just as absrud. Yes, women are raped and assualted in many places around the world, but it happens in India, Africa and the Middle East just as much and I would say even more so, than in the west. So much for "white men" being a protoype for crimes against women.

    One last thing...he killed four men and two women. Im sick of hearing this talked about as purely a crime against women. I understand why women feel targeted by him. He did hate women. But then again he hated everyone, so to call this a misogynistic crime, rather than a misnathropic crime, is wrong.

  2. #262
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nara View Post
    Predictable.

    The problem with incitement to violence is that nothing can be done before individuals - by clearly encouraging to take action - are suggesting this is imminent.
    That depends on how evolved your legislature is.
    Then again, the US has never had any conscience about detaining suspected Islamic "terrorists" - on much flimsier grounds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  3. #263
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    I could just as easily argue that some women "drove" him to commit the crime, and it would be no less absurd.
    Umm..no, you couldn't. And if you think you can, you're part of the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  4. #264
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Umm..no, you couldn't. And if you think you can, you're part of the problem.
    Did you even understand what I meant? I said that it would be absurd to argue that it was women's fault.

    But wait...the problem? You're saying the situation is so simple that there is simply one problem, that it isnt a complex mish mash of intertwined problems?

  5. #265
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Did you even understand what I meant? I said that it would be absurd to argue that.
    I understand what you wrote, and indeed, have seen it regurgitated ad nauseum. If you meant something else you should have written something else. I'd have been more than happy to understand that too but sadly can't read minds.

    "You're part of the problem" is the appropriate response to people who think they can argue that "some women drove him to commit the crime". Helpfully too, they offer evidence of the ubiquitous nature of the phenomenon that they simultaneously claim doesn't exist. So it's a twofer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #266
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    I understand what you wrote, and indeed, have seen it regurgitated ad nauseum. If you meant something else you should have written something else. I'd have been more than happy to understand that too but sadly can't read minds.
    Perhpas you would have not misunderstood/misinterpeted what I wrote if you had kept it in context. My arguement was that its pointless to look for scapegoats, of any sort, because the killer is solely responsible for his own actions.

    "You're part of the problem" is the appropriate response to people who think they can argue that "some women drove him to commit the crime". Helpfully too, they offer evidence of the ubiquitous nature of the phenomenon that they simultaneously claim doesn't exist. So it's a twofer.
    So what are you saying that, someone or something other than the killer(what you call "the problem") is reponsible for this killing spree?

  7. #267
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    My arguement was that its pointless to look for scapegoats, of any sort, because the killer is solely responsible for his own actions.
    Who is looking for scapegoats? (Other than the killer himself, that is.)

    So what are you saying that, someone or something other than the killer(what you call "the problem") is reponsible for this killing spree?
    I think it would be facile to pretend that atrocities like this happen in a vacuum. I think you expressed the same belief yourself not 2 posts ago...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  8. #268
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    Why We Need To Talk About Elliot Rodger | James Michael Sama

    Why did he do this? Because he was lonely. Because he was a 22 year old virgin and had never kissed a girl. Because he had a deep hatred for women who rejected him and for men who were sexually active. Because he saw himself as the perfect man, the “true alpha male” as he says in his videos – and yet all women rejected him.

    Why do we need to discuss this? Because some people will actually sympathize with him. Because some people will actually say that if he had been sexually active or gotten what he wants, this wouldn’t have happened. What is the underlying message here? Women: Give yourselves to men you’re not attracted to, because if you don’t, he may fly off the handle.



    This is a massive problem. Perpetuating even the thought of statements such as this are precisely why we still have a fight for equality.

    No man is entitled to any woman. No man inherently “deserves” a woman’s attention, body, or heart. But the entitlement complexes deeply rooted in boys like Elliot easily create a Patrick Bateman-esque (American Psycho) love/hate relationship with women.

  9. #269
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    the fucked up thing is that given the location of his college and the uni...

    it's entirely plausible that there is a girl who:
    1. knew someone who died in the shootings.
    2. was one of the girls who rejected the killer.
    3. is reading or hearing about those comments.

    ....can you imagine the screwed up mental mess?

  10. #270
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Society View Post
    the fucked up thing is that given the location of his college and the uni...

    it's entirely plausible that there is a girl who:
    1. knew someone who died in the shootings.
    2. was one of the girls who rejected the killer.
    3. is reading or hearing about those comments.

    ....can you imagine the screwed up mental mess?
    Yeah, the original blonde girl that rejected him (she was ten, he was twelve) that he rants on about in his manifesto didn't even recall him now and apparently is a basket case. I'm sure there are others.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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