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  1. #161
    Senior Member wildflower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    He's got a lot of magical thinking going on (the lottery stuff). And he was hugely obsessed with social status. Apparently he killed his roommates not because they were fucking beautiful women, but because they were nerds who didn't even have the decency to try to climb the social ladder. I think he hated everyone, not just women, but he certainly thought of women as chattel that he was not being allowed access to.

    Edit: actually he killed his roommates to secure his apartment as a torture chamber for phase 1 of his plan, but he had also previously complained about them being nerds who didn't even care enough about social status to be ashamed of being nerds. And also Asian- he was a huge racist too, which is doubly sad since he was half Asian himself.
    i only read a few excerpts from his manifesto but in one he was at a party and tried to push the women off a 10' ledge. the men at the party got pissed naturally and pushed him off the ledge instead. he broke his ankle and then whines in his manifesto how only if one of the women at the party would have seen how he was injured and shown him some mercy and gone home with him to take care of him and had sex blah blah blah. hello?! you just tried to push these women off a ledge and now that you are injured you think one of these women should be sympathetic and go home with you. i would bet if this guy ever had gotten a girlfriend he would have eventually killed her for doing something "wrong".

    i can certainly feel for the guy because he had asperger's, but i think there must be a whole lot more going on here psychologically. i wouldn't be surprised to find out he was a sociopath.

  2. #162
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    More info revealed regarding the killer's relations with women, this time with particular examples:

    Father of Monette Moio singled out by Elliot Rodger insists she 'isn't bully' | Mail Online

    Appearantly Rodgers spoke of this girl, Monette Moio, in his manifesto as being responsible for his hatred of women.

    It also has photos of the victims of the killings.

    Im not drawing any conclusions now, just throwing this information out there.

    Discuss away!

  3. #163
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post

    i can certainly feel for the guy because he had asperger's, but i think there must be a whole lot more going on here psychologically. i wouldn't be surprised to find out he was a sociopath.
    Ya think so?
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  4. #164
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    More info revealed regarding the killer's relations with women, this time with particular examples:

    Father of Monette Moio singled out by Elliot Rodger insists she 'isn't bully' | Mail Online

    Apparently Rodgers spoke of this girl, Monette Moio, in his manifesto as being responsible for his hatred of women.
    Typical media (more typical DailyMail, though it is one of my guilty pleasures):

    "Here's the attractive blonde victim!!!! There may have been others."
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  5. #165
    reflecting pool Typh0n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Typical media (more typical DailyMail, though it is one of my guilty pleasures):

    "Here's the attractive blonde victim!!!! There may have been others."
    Actually, it lays out in detail what hadnt been clear for me in other articles.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildflower View Post
    i wouldn't be surprised to find out he was a sociopath.
    That's what I thought initially, but I wonder if he dealt with any degree of social anxiety or merely social ineptitude. Psychopaths are usually characterized by a lack of fear or comprehension of consequences. I'm no expert on the subject, but I don't believe neuroticism is common among psychopaths.

    An experiment that administered electric shocks to inmates found that normal brains experienced a certain measure of fear in anticipation of the shocks, but psychopathic brains exhibited no such reaction.

  7. #167
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    Actually, it lays out in detail what hadnt been clear for me in other articles.
    Yeah, I'm not saying they get it wrong or are a purely tabloid website, but that they're just very "anything horrific and sensational, and the more attractive people, the better"

    A lot of media is like that, but they are the extreme.

    I like it, it is informative, and you're right, they lay things out bullet pointed and easy to grasp. But I'm just cautious. They've been known to not get facts right sometimes.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  8. #168
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet View Post
    That's what I thought initially, but I wonder if he dealt with any degree of social anxiety or merely social ineptitude. Psychopaths are usually characterized by a lack of fear or comprehension of consequences. I'm no expert on the subject, but I don't believe neuroticism is common among psychopaths.

    An experiment that administered electric shocks to subjects found that normal brains experienced a certain measure of fear in anticipation of the shocks, but psychopathic brains exhibited no such reaction.

    Seems like the definition of Sociopath and Psychopath has varied over the years. I always thought a psychopath was a violent and dangerous sociopath, and a sociopath had similar issues, but didn't act violently.

    "'sociopath' refers to less dangerous people who are seen more as products of their environment, including their upbringing. Other researchers make a distinction between 'primary psychopaths,' who are thought to be genetically caused, and 'secondary psychopaths,' seen as more a product of their environments."

    source: What Is a Psychopath? | Psychology Today

    Psychopathy Checklist Revised (PCL-R), developed by Robert Hare:

    glib and superficial charm,
    grandiosity
    need for stimulation
    pathological lying
    cunning and manipulating,
    lack of remorse
    callousness
    poor behavioral controls
    impulsiveness
    irresponsibility
    denial
    parasitic lifestyle
    sexual promiscuity
    early behavior problems
    lack of realistic long-term goals
    failure to accept responsibility for own actions
    many short-term marital relationships
    juvenile delinquency
    revocation of conditional release
    criminal versatility
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    Seems like the definition of Sociopath and Psychopath has varied over the years. I always thought a psychopath was a violent and dangerous sociopath, and a sociopath had similar issues, but didn't act violently.

    "'sociopath' refers to less dangerous people who are seen more as products of their environment, including their upbringing. Other researchers make a distinction between 'primary psychopaths,' who are thought to be genetically caused, and 'secondary psychopaths,' seen as more a product of their environments."

    source: What Is a Psychopath? | Psychology Today

    Psychopathy Checklist Revised (PCL-R), developed by Robert Hare:

    glib and superficial charm,
    grandiosity
    need for stimulation
    pathological lying
    cunning and manipulating,
    lack of remorse
    callousness
    poor behavioral controls
    impulsiveness
    irresponsibility
    denial
    parasitic lifestyle
    sexual promiscuity
    early behavior problems
    lack of realistic long-term goals
    failure to accept responsibility for own actions
    many short-term marital relationships
    juvenile delinquency
    revocation of conditional release
    criminal versatility
    Yes, the terms are frequently used interchangeably. On the interwebz, I operate under the assumption that people aren't drawing a strict distinction between the two.

    From your link:
    First a bit of terminological history, to clear up any confusion about the meanings of “sociopath,” “psychopath,” and related terms. In the early 1800s, doctors who worked with mental patients began to notice that some of their patients who appeared outwardly normal had what they termed a “moral depravity” or “moral insanity,” in that they seemed to possess no sense of ethics or of the rights of other people. The term “psychopath” was first applied to these people around 1900. The term was changed to “sociopath” in the 1930s to emphasize the damage they do to society. Currently researchers have returned to using the term “psychopath.” Some of them use that term to refer to a more serious disorder, linked to genetic traits, producing more dangerous individuals, while continuing to use “sociopath” to refer to less dangerous people who are seen more as products of their environment, including their upbringing. Other researchers make a distinction between “primary psychopaths,” who are thought to be genetically caused, and “secondary psychopaths,” seen as more a product of their environments.
    Most sources cite a noticeable lack of fear as an indicator as well:

    - Absence of "nervousness" or psychoneurotic manifestations
    - Poor judgment and failure to learn by experience
    - General poverty in major affective reactions
    - Specific loss of insight

    Is Fear Deficit a Harbinger of Future Psychopaths?

    Regarding the electric shock experiment:

    The difference between you and a psychopath.

    In the mid-60s, Hare was working as a prison psychologist in Vancouver. He put word around the prison that he was looking for psychopathic and non-psychopathic volunteers for tests. He strapped them up to various EEG and sweat- and blood pressure-measuring machines, and also to an electricity generator, and explained to them that he was going to count backwards from 10 and when he reached one they'd receive a very painful electric shock.

    The difference in the responses stunned Hare. The non-psychopathic volunteers (theirs were crimes of passion, usually, or crimes born from terrible poverty or abuse) steeled themselves ruefully, as if a painful electric shock were just the penance they deserved. They were, Hare noted, scared.
    "And the psychopaths?" I asked.

    "They didn't break a sweat," said Hare. "Nothing." The tests seemed to indicate that the amygdala, the part of the brain that should have anticipated the unpleasantness and sent the requisite signals of fear to the central nervous system, wasn't functioning as it should. It was an enormous breakthrough for Hare, his first clue that the brains of psychopaths were different from regular brains.

  10. #170
    hypersane Hive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Typh0n View Post
    More info revealed regarding the killer's relations with women, this time with particular examples:

    Father of Monette Moio singled out by Elliot Rodger insists she 'isn't bully' | Mail Online
    I thought the introduction was, perhaps unintentionally, morbidly funny.

    EXCLUSIVE - Father of 'devastated' model singled out by virgin killer as the reason why he hates all women insists she 'isn't a bully and barely remembers him'
    The bolded is a huge part of the reason why he did it - he never managed to make an impression on girls.

    Anyway, regarding the psychopath/sociopath discussion, I'm gonna say that he definetely was not either of them. They're glib, charming people with an especially keen insight about how relationships between people work. They have high cognitive empathy but low affective empathy, meaning they read and understand other people's emotional states like a book, but don't have an emotional response to them at all. That is the empathical mirror image of many people with autism, including Asperger's, which some speculate Elliot Rodger had. He most likely lacked cognitive empathy as he didn't understand the basics of a human relationship or why girls wouldn't behave like he wanted around him, yet his affective empathy could have been functioning normally. (Or not, we don't know. But a non-functioning ability to cognitively empathize is a very safe bet.)
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