User Tag List

View Poll Results: Do You Believe Intelligent Extraterrestrial Life Has Visited Our Planet?

Voters
72. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    12 16.67%
  • Probably

    13 18.06%
  • It's 50/50

    7 9.72%
  • Probably not

    22 30.56%
  • No

    18 25.00%
First 91718192021 Last

Results 181 to 190 of 224

  1. #181
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    9,130

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I can speculate on both ends, but that's not proof, just speculation.
    That was my point, quasi.

  2. #182
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    Don't underestimate the financial benefits of catering to niche interests. Thanks to Valiant, I found out that there is a small but busy group of authors who are in the business of selling lies about the holocaust to people who require little persuasion to accept them. Staying outside the accepted circles of your profession opens up opportunities, too. Laymen love a maverick. They pay just as well and usually buy what they want to hear anyway.
    Authors are a whole different other story though they solely are in the business of selling books.

  3. #183
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Well, there are lots of speculations that could be entertained.

    There are many things people might be willing to pursue something like this over, not just money. I mean, he was a podiatrist... not exactly a high-glamour profession. So the respect of fellow podiatrists might be trampled underfoot but at the same time suddenly you're a guest of honor and a national "expert" in this unique field that you think you have qualified information for. I can speculate on both ends, but that's not proof, just speculation. I think all I suggested is that he seemed to sincerely believe what he was saying, if I had to pick one or the other.

    I did read a bit about his credentials. His certifications and practice in podiatry seemed pretty unblemished, although someone referred to some blip back in 2002-2003 (?) that didn't impact much.
    Like I said the proof lies within the artifacts he's discovered, if everything he's saying is true then there is no reason not to believe E.T's are implanting these devices in other people. Have you seen the Bob Lazar video I posted?

  4. #184
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    FREE
    Enneagram
    594 sx/sp
    Socionics
    LII Ne
    Posts
    42,333

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Like I said the proof lies within the artifacts he's discovered, if everything he's saying is true then there is no reason not to believe E.T's are implanting these devices in other people.
    The official analysis seems debated. I think the one facility only actually said that it was likely meteoritic in origin, which doesn't necessarily mean alien, but he was the only who started calling it extraterrestrial. I understand there are other elements (like the radio frequency transponder claims, for example) -- still trying to read up on that and see what other data I can find.

    It's a big issue he never had official publication of the data in credited sources, which would have suggested more thorough scrutiny by peers. Doesn't mean it's not true, it just means that corroboration from multiple studies would have gone a long way, so now I'm stuck searching online for support/criticism.

    Have you seen the Bob Lazar video I posted?
    Not yet, working backwards. I'll get to it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #185
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    MBTI
    ENTP
    Enneagram
    7w8 sx/sp
    Posts
    2,839

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Like I said the proof lies within the artifacts he's discovered, if everything he's saying is true then there is no reason not to believe E.T's are implanting these devices in other people. Have you seen the Bob Lazar video I posted?
    There's no record of Lazar attending M.I.T. or CalTech. No one remembers him.

    And this guy explains away the "Well the government erased the records" theory pretty well:



    Plus some damaging cred:

    Bob was "on probation in Clark County, Nevada on a pandering charge for having installed a computer system for an illegal brothel (while a few brothels are legal in some counties of Nevada, prostitution is illegal in Clark County)."

    This isn't too bad, and he was highly intelligent and DID attend an Electronics course at Pierce Junior College.

    Maybe he did work at Area 51, maybe he is telling the truth, or at least believes he is, but it's not enough for me to give it much credence.

    Believing in intelligent life on Earth is like believing in ghosts. Either you've had a personal experience that few will probably believe, or you've seen irrefutable evidence (I have never seen irrefutable evidence of either). I sensed creepy stuff at supposed "haunted places" and had a lot of psychedelic experiences suggesting other dimensions and even beings of higher intelligence, but this is hardly proof.

    I remain open minded, and haven't crossed intelligent life on earth off the list (or ghosts, for that matter).
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #186
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    There's no record of Lazar attending M.I.T. or CalTech. No one remembers him.

    And this guy explains away the "Well the government erased the records" theory pretty well:



    Plus some damaging cred:
    Bob's story is strange because there appears to be no record of him attending M.I.T but how is it possible for him to have such a career today without ever attending university.

    " Bob Lazar is the President of United Nuclear. They specialize in research & development of cutting edge technologies, design and manufacture of radiation detection equipment for the nuclear weapons industry, and the retail of scientific equipment & supplies. He was formerly senior staff physicist for the U.S. Department of Naval Intelligence at the Nevada Test Site and a nuclear physicist at Los Alamos National Laboratory, where he was involved in advanced nuclear weapon design and development."

    I hope you know though that the same guy Stanton Freemon a physicist who discredits Bob lazar also believes that aliens have visited our planet, he is also an advocate and Ufologist.

  7. #187
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    This is a really good article you guys should take a look at about Bob Lazar credibility which shows very good pros and cons. The Bob Lazar conundrum: is there any truth to Lazar’s claims? | ClassicUFO.com

    "Bob Lazar’s story: the big problems


    The problems with the above: with the exception of Pierce College, an investigation conducted by Stanton Friedman revealed that not one of the schools listed above has any record of Lazar’s attendence. Further, when pressed, Lazar cannot recall the name of one instructor, academic advisor, study friend, etc. at any of these schools. And, similarly, Friedman found that virtually no staff members at any of these schools (with the exception of Pierce Junior College) remembered ever meeting Bob Lazar – no one had ever heard of Lazar. Friedman did confirm that Lazar took a few courses at Pierce College – and that was it. A bit queer, as well, is Lazar’s inability to recall the exact year of his graduation from MIT – certainly the capstone of his academic career. When asked, he’s given various dates and simply states that he can’t recall the year with certainty.
    Regarding the absence of documentation for his academic career Lazar purports that all of the important records relating to his life – academic, and otherwise – have been systematically wiped out in a campaign mounted by some clandestine force to simply “erase him as a human being”.
    While it would be certainly be a formidable task to remove every paper trace of someone’s college career (and life) one could argue that this kind of scenario is, at least, a theoretical possibility.
    Conversely it would, certainly, be impossible to erase the memories of the students and faculty at MIT (and all of the other colleges). There are extraordinary problems with Lazar’s MIT claims. As a graduate student Lazar would have worked very closely with an academic adviser (possibly more than one), been required to submit papers for peer review, and more. Lazar could also claim that aliens flew him to Mars, sold him a piece of land, gave him a deed, and that he erected a motel on the property. This may seem a stretch, as far as analogies go, but for anyone vaguely familiar with what’s involved in earning an advanced science degree from a college like MIT, it’s not much of a stretch. Again, a graduate student in physics would have a very high-profile, generally, and a great amount of interaction with faculty, peers, and – very often – the scientific community at large. A scenario in which a person completes a course of study, as detailed by Lazar, and is subsequently completely forgotten by virtually everyone seems transparently ridiculous (irrespective of the missing paper trail). Every researcher who has looked closely at the case has arrived at the same conclusion: at the very least, Lazar did not complete graduate studies in physics at MIT (whether or not he was ever a student at MIT is less clear – however that appears highly unlikely, as well)."



    Bob Lazar’s story: the smaller problems


    While Lazar’s accounting of his academic career seems, unquestionably, to be a work of fiction it’s not the only thing which makes researchers wary of Lazar and his tale. On a more subjective level, there are things about Lazar’s personal life that work – in the minds of many – to paint Bob Lazar as someone of questionable character.

    Most notably, Lazar pled guilty to a charge of pandering in Las Vegas in the early 1990′s. According to Lazar, however, the judge actually presented him with a list from which Lazar was told he could select his own charge. For reasons only Lazar could know, he chose pandering. Lazar’s arrest and conviction grew out of the fact that an acquaintance had hired him to install a computerized, camera surveillance system in a Las Vegas brothel. Lazar said he knew the owner because he and his wife had, at one time, invested in one of the legal brothels in northern Nevada. Bob Lazar laughs about the incident, in interviews, and seems to suggest that it’s all much ado about nothing. Lazar’s explanation of the episode has never been disputed and it seems clear that he simply installed the surveillance equipment. Nonetheless, it constitutes a criminal history and is frequently used by critics to further discredit Lazar and his Area 51 story.

    Tom Mahood presented a variety of evidence on his web site which called into question both the quality of Lazar’s character, and, his knowledge of physics. Mahood’s investigation into Lazar’s claims was, in fact, a collaborative effort to which a number of people contributed. In an interview conducted by a gentleman named Mark Farmer – and appearing on Mahood’s site – a former co-worker and friend described Lazar as “disingenous” and stated that, while Lazar was a smart guy, he didn’t buy a word of Lazar’s Area 51 story. Lazar’s former friend explained that after he’d sold Lazar a car he had to chase him for five years to get paid. As the friend put it, “(Bob’s) very intelligent. He’s also very clever and kind of a little bit of a con man”. Mahood enlisted Dr. David L. Morgan to review Bob’s explanation of the alien propulsion system and Morgan found fault after fault with Lazar’s physics, stating that much of what Lazar described violated a laundry list of scientific laws and principles. Morgan also noted that many of Lazar’s details were vague and confusing, and, that Lazar often used the wrong scientific terminology when describing things.


    In defense of Lazar
    Given all the problems, why does Lazar’ story continue to generate so much interest? Beyond the fact that it’s an extraordinary and highly intriguing tale, there are things which – in the view of some – seem to suggest that Lazar just might be telling the truth. In no particular order, here are some things to consider in Lazar’s defense:

    Lazar, plain and simple, seems like a genuinely geeky dude who would have no clear motive to invent anything this far-fetched. In interviews, many people feel Lazar comes across as a straight shooter. That, of course, doesn’t mean he isn’t lying. He’s either an incredibly adept con man, or, he’s telling the truth. At any rate, Lazar’s story has legs in large part because Lazar simply appears guileless and straightforward (to a lot of people). Further, Lazar’s accounting of his bizarre adventure has generally been consistent.
    While Lazar appears to have fudged his academic record and performed poorly in high school there is, somewhat paradoxically, considerable evidence to suggest that he’s a very bright individual. Lazar was always interested in exotic propulsion systems and once converted a Honda Civic to run on a jet engine. The story of Lazar and his 200mph, jet-powered Honda were the subject of an article which appeared in the Los Alamos Monitor newspaper in 1982. The same article described Lazar as “a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility”. While there’s much debate over Lazar’s actual position at Los Alamos, he’s produced pay stubs which appear to indicate that he worked at the lab in some capacity (though, possibly, for a sub-contractor and likely not as a physicist). Over the last few years Lazar successfully developed a hydrogen powered car which he hoped to mass produce (hardly the sort of project that might be pulled off by a D-plus science student). Finally, Lazar now owns and operates a high-tech business (United Nuclear) which sells everything from radioactive isotopes to lab equipment; the US government is reported to be one of his customers.
    Lazar passed a polygraph. While some skeptics have questioned the validity of the test and results, none have succeeded in proving the test invalid. The best evidence appears to suggest that Bob was truthful when questioned about his story by a polygraph examiner.
    Television newsman George Knapp had Lazar quizzed by people who, according to Knapp, had absolutely worked at Area 51. Lazar was able to give details about the facility that led Knapp and his associates to conclude Lazar must have worked at the base in some capacity.
    Central to Lazar’s story was his claim that the alien craft relied on a super heavy, stable element which was not known to exist at at the time – element 115. In 2004, US and Russian researchers discovered the element.
    On three separate occasions Lazar led friends and family (his ex-wife) into the desert to observe, and video tape, test flights of a strange craft. The video tapes have been made public and, indeed, appear to show some sort of strange craft performing bizarre aerial maneuvers. If Lazar had no association with the base, it’s difficult to conceive of how he would have known the precise date and times of the flights.
    Lazar says that he went public with his story only out of fears that the government intended to kill him. Further, Lazar has never made any efforts to capitalize on his story.
    Lazar states that he finds abduction stories silly and refuses to correspond with anyone regarding the subject of UFOs, abductions, etc. He has effectively faded into obscurity and now (as noted earlier) owns and operates “United Nuclear” in Williamston, Michigan. The business sells various scientific supplies. It’s difficult for anyone to make the case that Lazar was seeking fame and fortune by inventing his story.

  8. #188
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    18,536

    Default

    For 2,000 years the Virgin Mary has appeared to countless people. But strangely enough not one of them is a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Hindu. In the same way aliens appear only to those in technological societies, and not anyone else.

    Why is the Virgin Mary and aliens so selective?

  9. #189
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    MBTI
    ESTJ
    Enneagram
    1w9
    Posts
    282

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I don't know. I like the idea. It entertains me. I like to listen to people talk about their evidence in favor of visitation. I just take it as a toy for my mind, though. I have no idea what the facts might be. It would probably take less to convince me that we have NOT been visited than it would to convince me that we have.
    Have a good laugh LOL.

    You don't have to seriously believe in the likelihood that ETs visited earth long ago, but there's no harm in keeping an open mind while exploring some possibilities.

    Who knows; maybe earth was a desirable chunk of real estate due to it's diverse carbon based life forms that an interstellar biologist might study. There also may have been an abundance of minerals which could have been more easily mined long ago.

    When I was a kid I had learned that ancient stone structures were constructed from very hard stone that fit together so precisely, that a likelihood the stone had been cast & hardened within a mold couldn't be discounted.
    I used to wonder whether molten earth could be pumped from shallow undersea volcanic vents, injected into molds & slowly cured under pressure.

    I'm not stating that I believe in any type of alien visitation to earth but science should thoroughly explore the possibility that earth may have been visited long ago.

  10. #190
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    4,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    For 2,000 years the Virgin Mary has appeared to countless people. But strangely enough not one of them is a Buddhist, or a Muslim, or a Hindu. In the same way aliens appear only to those in technological societies, and not anyone else.

    Why is the Virgin Mary and aliens so selective?
    Are you high?

Similar Threads

  1. Do You Believe In Intelligent Extraterrestrial Life?
    By Zarathustra in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 63
    Last Post: 05-19-2014, 10:02 PM
  2. How much do you believe you are an ther type?
    By Lexlike in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-19-2008, 04:51 PM
  3. What ideas do you believe are innate?
    By Kiddo in forum Philosophy and Spirituality
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-13-2008, 09:26 AM
  4. Do you believe in natural rights?
    By Kiddo in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-26-2008, 01:27 PM
  5. Do you believe in a higher power?
    By ygolo in forum The Bonfire
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 09-03-2007, 08:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO