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View Poll Results: Do You Believe Intelligent Extraterrestrial Life Has Visited Our Planet?

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  • Yes

    12 16.67%
  • Probably

    13 18.06%
  • It's 50/50

    7 9.72%
  • Probably not

    22 30.56%
  • No

    18 25.00%
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  1. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    Teleportation would demand that a living creature literally be destroyed before being reconstituted precisely as it was, atom by atom. The amount of information processed by whatever computers they would use would be staggering - a colossal number of GHz. You're basically talking about a Death Star laser with many times more bandwidth than every computer on earth. If such technology exists, they do not use it to transport their own kind. They would send automated probes. Which still isn't extraterrestrial life. I mean, unless they're suicidal and they don't mind ceasing to be.

    And yeah, maybe one black hole leads to another. Or maybe they bridge universes. The nearest black hole is still 1600 lightyears away.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but the facts raise as many doubts as they do probabilities. So I'm not really sure why someone's conviction about extraterrestrial landings would be unshakable unless they were visited by a flesh and blood alien.

    Also, I'm skeptical of Steven Greer's methods of communicating with extraterrestrials; as someone who regularly meditates, I can confirm that under the right conditions, meditation can send you into a state of extreme suggestibility. Hypnosis, for instance, can be used, with coercion, to create false memories in a patient, rendering them psychotic.
    They could have technology where they do not get destroyed atom by atom they could have technology that has allowed them to get pieced back together perfectly who really knows? My guess is that if you are able to somehow bend gravity you would be able to travel from A to B without going through what is in between. What do you think about this guy who claims to have reverse engineered an alien spacecraft? I think there is a good chance he could be bullshit but his story is intriguing none the less.


  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    They could have technology where they do not get destroyed atom by atom they could have technology that has allows them to get pieced back together perfectly who really knows? My guess is that if you are able to somehow bend gravity you would be able to travel from A to B without going through what is in between. What do you think about this guy who claims to have reserve engineered an alien spacecraft?

    We do know about our own teleportation technology. That's what I'm basing my reasoning on. Sure, if alien civilizations exist, they might use something entirely different. However, until that is proven, I'm not willing to throw my hands up in the air, give up, and say "Oh, it's aliens, so I can't possibly infer anything about what limitations they would be constrained by."

    Your video is interesting. I'll have to do some research on this guy.

  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    As far as we know, the "speed limit of the universe" is light speed.
    The speed limit of matter and energy within time and space is the speed of light, but the accelerating expansion of time and space has no speed limit, so time and space is expanding in parts of the universe right now faster than the speed of light.

  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Here is a better video that describes his findings in greater detail. Holy crap skip to 19:30 that's freaky as hell.
    Thanks for the video, I did start watching it tonight (got about 25 minutes into it).

    I don't seem to be having the same response as you did. Leir (the podiatrist/UFO guy) seems very sincere to me. But there are some issues with the video -- I can't even tell what he's pointing out sometimes, or see the things he is claiming appear in the surgery video, for example (which bounces around, making it hard to pinpoint detail). It's reminiscent of when people show ghost pictures because they see something meaningful in the picture, but someone else might have trouble finding the same image/pattern. He does also make some pretty BIG claims (like the four-fingered handprints on the wall), but I need to read more about that to confirm and know the full data.

    He does make many claims about what his findings were, which might or might not be true; he definitely seems to believe these claims to be meaningful + accurate. But I'm still having to do some reading just to understand what these claims actually mean. That's where I am now. (And it's why I really do prefer text. I need to understand the context of the claims and the range of what they show, not just what someone might claim in a video.)

    I was a little bothered when he spend a few minutes talking about his A&E deal falling through because he had been promised there would be no skeptics/alternate views shown in the video and then A&E apparently reneged on that after they had some experts come in to review the footage and wanted to have a skeptical viewpoint. I do think he had every right to not do the show, since they did change their mind, but that's not my issue -- it's just that if there is no context for the data being presented, no differing opinions on what it might mean, then how can we evaluate the veracity of the claim? It's easy for people to make convincing arguments to amateurs or laypersons when no one will understand the data they're presenting and they are not challenged by alternate views. It's also unsettlingly like the approach of the YECs I've had to deal with, who don't want to have their data scrutinized by atheists and didn't see opposition as a way to test their ideas but as people trying to undermine what they already believed to be true.

    It's not that I don't empathize with him. I can imagine that he had felt excluded at times when sharing what he believed was true (Leir died in March 2014, so I'm using past tense), or he had been blindsided by skeptics, so I understand he wanted to protect himself, etc. He was probably treated roughly and unfairly at times, and ridiculed. But I'm just speaking as someone who needs to get opinions of various sides of the argument.

    I'll finish this video, do more online reading, and go backwards through this thread to explore the things Zara was saying; it's possible he answered some of my questions.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    I fail to see evidence of aliens there. At best, it is evidence of unidentified flying objects. It could also be evidence of unknown visual patterns, hallucinations or, quite simply, lies. As for the explanations, I would be looking at human and natural sources, I would suspect (secret) military tests, private flight experiments, as yet unknown species of birds and so forth before I claim to have seen an alien spaceship. None of this disproves the existence and sightings of alien spaceships, of course, but the burdon of proof lies with those making extraordinary claims, not with the skeptics.
    This sums up a lot of my thoughts on whether there are ETs visiting us or not.

    Considering how vast the universe is, I assume that there is intelligent life on par or higher than our cultures somewhere out there. Also considering how vast this universe is and how little we effect our own solar system past the lunar orbit- (While I find the New Horizons probe and its brethren to be spawns of fascinating information, I don't think that their nano-blips in our small cosmos is significant outside of Earth.) - the idea that we have been "visited" seems to be the flipside of when people search for a higher power. That insatiable inner human need to matter and belong and be Important. Except it's aliens this time.

  6. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Thanks for the video, I did start watching it tonight (got about 25 minutes into it).

    I don't seem to be having the same response as you did. Leir (the podiatrist/UFO guy) seems very sincere to me. But there are some issues with the video -- I can't even tell what he's pointing out sometimes, or see the things he is claiming appear in the surgery video, for example (which bounces around, making it hard to pinpoint detail). It's reminiscent of when people show ghost pictures because they see something meaningful in the picture, but someone else might have trouble finding the same image/pattern. He does also make some pretty BIG claims (like the four-fingered handprints on the wall), but I need to read more about that to confirm and know the full data.
    I don't even care about those claims about finding further evidence in the person's home I really think that what makes his work meaningful are the artifacts he recovered I think that's where the real evidence lies because it's right there in front of us. Also you will notice that the people who had been captured by UFOs never show themselves in the video which makes sense because of the constant ridicule they receive from skeptics.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I was a little bothered when he spend a few minutes talking about his A&E deal falling through because he had been promised there would be no skeptics/alternate views shown in the video and then A&E apparently reneged on that after they had some experts come in to review the footage and wanted to have a skeptical viewpoint. I do think he had every right to not do the show, since they did change their mind, but that's not my issue -- it's just that if there is no context for the data being presented, no differing opinions on what it might mean, then how can we evaluate the veracity of the claim? It's easy for people to make convincing arguments to amateurs or laypersons when no one will understand the data they're presenting and they are not challenged by alternate views. It's also unsettlingly like the approach of the YECs I've had to deal with, who don't want to have their data scrutinized by atheists and didn't see opposition as a way to test their ideas but as people trying to undermine what they already believed to be true.
    What part was this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    It's not that I don't empathize with him. I can imagine that he had felt excluded at times when sharing what he believed was true (Leir died in March 2014, so I'm using past tense), or he had been blindsided by skeptics, so I understand he wanted to protect himself, etc. He was probably treated roughly and unfairly at times, and ridiculed. But I'm just speaking as someone who needs to get opinions of various sides of the argument.

    I'll finish this video, do more online reading, and go backwards through this thread to explore the things Zara was saying; it's possible he answered some of my questions.
    It's not easy for a doctor to present this kind of stuff in front of his colleagues and other professionals, this is another reason why I think his work could be true. He is a professional, what he says and how he does his job is important for his credibility.

  7. #177
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    Moved speculations about Zara's disappearance to Graveyard OT.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    I don't even care about those claims about finding further evidence in the person's home I really think that what makes his work meaningful are the artifacts he recovered I think that's where the real evidence lies because it's right there in front of us. Also you will notice that the people who had been captured by UFOs never show themselves in the video which makes sense because of the constant ridicule they receive from skeptics.
    That's actually something I take into consideration when people present their stories and why I'm willing to study this further. When someone seems to bask in the limelight, it diminishes their credibility (or at least suggests an ulterior motive). Public acclaim doesn't seem to be that much of a factor here.

    What part was this?
    Somewhere between the 5-10 minute marks. It was a rather long anecdote.

    It's not easy for a doctor to present this kind of stuff in front of his colleagues and other professionals, this is another reason why I think his work could be true. He is a professional, what he says and how he does his job is important for his credibility.
    Yes, I definitely thinks he believes it... and is willing to stake some reputation on it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It's not easy for a doctor to present this kind of stuff in front of his colleagues and other professionals, this is another reason why I think his work could be true. He is a professional, what he says and how he does his job is important for his credibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, I definitely thinks he believes it... and is willing to stake some reputation on it.
    Don't underestimate the financial benefits of catering to niche interests. Thanks to Valiant, I found out that there is a small but busy group of authors who are in the business of selling lies about the holocaust to people who require little persuasion to accept them. Staying outside the accepted circles of your profession opens up opportunities, too. Laymen love a maverick. They pay just as well and usually buy what they want to hear anyway.

  10. #180
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    Well, there are lots of speculations that could be entertained.

    There are many things people might be willing to pursue something like this over, not just money. I mean, he was a podiatrist... not exactly a high-glamour profession. So the respect of fellow podiatrists might be trampled underfoot but at the same time suddenly you're a guest of honor and a national "expert" in this unique field that you think you have qualified information for. I can speculate on both ends, but that's not proof, just speculation. I think all I suggested is that he seemed to sincerely believe what he was saying, if I had to pick one or the other.

    I did read a bit about his credentials. His certifications and practice in podiatry seemed pretty unblemished, although someone referred to some blip back in 2002-2003 (?) that didn't impact much.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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