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View Poll Results: Do You Believe Intelligent Extraterrestrial Life Has Visited Our Planet?

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  • Yes

    12 16.67%
  • Probably

    13 18.06%
  • It's 50/50

    7 9.72%
  • Probably not

    22 30.56%
  • No

    18 25.00%
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  1. #161

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Even the existence of finding nanotubes implanted in humans (if that is accurate) only suggests that someone implanted them. That's not necessarily alien life. But I apologize if someone already noted this, because I'm still playing catch-up and skimming backwards through the thread at this point...
    Have you even watched the video? at 1:03 he explains how primitive our understanding of carbon nano tubes are and that the ones they retrieved are very complex in structure something that humans still don't have the technology to make.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Yes, I've seen various media sources of all persuasions both purposefully and inadvertently misinform the public, and of course what passes for soundbite/surface news is at best just glossing over a lot of nuance in order to present "talking points."

    That doesn't mean talking points can't accurately sum up what the data is saying, but yes, you lose granularity, and sometimes erroneous conclusions can be drawn and disseminated.

    (A big recent example is all the stupidity about MA370. There we have 24-hour cable news, trying to make up stories about "what happened to the plane," meanwhile coupled with an investigation that is normally under wraps anyway + a government that was holding onto information to save face and money.)
    Mainstream media is bullshit all the news you hear is owned by multi billion dollar organizations who own private military companies that create weapons of war. The war in iraq is a prime example of this.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    The latter part isn't really my focus (that's a different topic), more interested in the results of the analsysis, but even in my searching typically just get the same few article propped all over the 'net.

    There's a lot of info in general about carbon nanotubes online (even wiki gives a pretty thorough analysis outside of their involvement with potential alien abductions, with quite a number of footnoted studies of their structure).


    Here is a better video that describes his findings in greater detail. Holy crap skip to 19:30 that's freaky as hell.

  4. #164
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Have you even watched the video? at 1:03 he explains how primitive our understanding of carbon nano tubes are and that the ones they retrieved are very complex in structure something that humans still don't have the technology to make.
    I specifically said yesterday I hadn't; the majority of my time on this site is away from home and video is blocked -- hence, I prefer articles and papers; and I just said I'm working backwards through the thread today, due to pulling back since I *hadn't* studied the details enough to discuss them further. I could say more, but I haven't seen the video nor want to waste your time further.

    Mainstream media is bullshit all the news you hear is owned by multi billion dollar organizations who own private military companies that create weapons of war. The war in iraq is a prime example of this.
    Well, let's not stop there. All media -- big or little -- is bullshit.

    Everyone has their angle, everyone is communicating information to serve their own ends. No one is trustworthy, it all has to be tested.

    That's actually one of the benefits of looking at how data is arranged, where the holes are, where things cluster. You can have a mental model of how things should typically fall based on what biases you can perceive and what probabilities seem to suggest, and then you can see what doesn't seem to make sense or where the ice is thick/thin. While not definite proof, it's a substantial point to see a majority of experts in one field with various backgrounds who independently reach the same conclusion about a particular item or weight it similarly. That's how the court system works, experts are "weighted" based on the quality and consistency of their past work. Again, frequency, positioning, context.

    When you get into granularity, you're just looking at one piece of data without its context or placement in the larger whole. You can tell if there are inherent weaknesses within that one piece of data itself, but you aren't testing the bigger picture. Again, pro's and con's.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    Here is a better video that describes his findings in greater detail.
    I appreciate you taking time to post one you thought was more informative. I won't have video access until late tomorrow night, so ... maybe after that point we can discuss it further and/or I'll have some productive questions that maybe you could help me with.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  5. #165
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    As far as we know, the "speed limit of the universe" is light speed. Most of the nearest planets that are potentially habitable are thousands of lightyears away. The ones that have given birth to life are probably even less. The ones that have cultivated sentient life are even less, still. Assuming one planet is home to a species that's even more technologically advanced than us, why would an alien civilization travel for so long to make contact with us? How would they sustain themselves during the trip? The more you examine the logistics of it, the more it starts to look as though, even if spacefaring creatures exist, they would probably want to deplete our resources. They would want something in exchange for their efforts to make the trip, which further reduces the likelihood that benign sightings indicate anything more than some sort of illusion or misunderstanding.

    If they did visit us, then at best, we would be the Native Americans to their Christopher Columbus. They would exercise little discretion and we would suffer for it. We would be annihilated in ways they wouldn't even intend.

    It feels good to take the self-centered route and presume that they would be benevolent, but if you're a cynic or even a realist about your beliefs in extraterrestrial visitation, then you may as well suggest that we should rewrite history in a way that conforms to all of this. That is, assuming that extraterrestrial visitation is realistic at all.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    As far as we know, the "speed limit of the universe" is light speed.
    There are a lot theories about bending gravity and teleporting with the use of black holes. If aliens did in fact visit us I doubt they would be traveling at the speed of light they probably have access to a type of teleportation technology.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I specifically said yesterday I hadn't; the majority of my time on this site is away from home and video is blocked -- hence, I prefer articles and papers; and I just said I'm working backwards through the thread today, due to pulling back since I *hadn't* studied the details enough to discuss them further. I could say more, but I haven't seen the video nor want to waste your time further.
    Again, you should check it out


    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's actually one of the benefits of looking at how data is arranged, where the holes are, where things cluster. You can have a mental model of how things should typically fall based on what biases you can perceive and what probabilities seem to suggest, and then you can see what doesn't seem to make sense or where the ice is thick/thin. While not definite proof, it's a substantial point to see a majority of experts in one field with various backgrounds who independently reach the same conclusion about a particular item or weight it similarly. That's how the court system works, experts are "weighted" based on the quality and consistency of their past work. Again, frequency, positioning, context.
    It's more than just critically analyzing the information you receive, mainstream media purposely manipulates the events and molds it into it's own bias instead of being objective about it. I remember reading and writing about this in one of my classes at school. The reason why there were so many protesters during the Vietnam war was because the media was much more objective during the late 60's than it was now. News reporters would interview Vietnamese people after they had been attacked by the Americans and broadcast it on American T.V.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    It's more than just critically analyzing the information you receive, mainstream media purposely manipulates the events and molds it into it's own bias instead of being objective about it. I remember reading and writing about this in one of my classes at school. The reason why there were so many protesters during the Vietnam war was because the media was much more objective during the late 60's than it was now. News reporters would interview Vietnamese people after they had been attacked by the Americans and broadcast it on American T.V.
    I agree that the veil thrown over military operations in both the Bush and Obama adminstrations has been disturbing. I remember the secrecy around publishing photographs of the caskets of dead soldiers from Iraq (or, rather, not publishing -- the government was trying to prohibit it). Although in that case, there were media sources that wanted to publish and the government was trying to squelch them.

    If we are asking our citizens country and citizens of another country to pay a cost, we should at least be willing to own up as to what the cost actually is.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #169
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    Ancient Astronauts

    Humans are so stupid, they could never have built anything on their own without tool imported from China. /sarcasm

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by jixmixfix View Post
    There are a lot theories about bending gravity and teleporting with the use of black holes. If aliens did in fact visit us I doubt they would be traveling at the speed of light they probably have access to a type of teleportation technology.
    Teleportation would demand that a living creature literally be destroyed before being reconstituted precisely as it was, atom by atom. The amount of information processed by whatever computers they would use would be staggering - a colossal number of GHz. You're basically talking about a Death Star laser with many times more bandwidth than every computer on earth. If such technology exists, they do not use it to transport their own kind. They would send automated probes. Which still isn't extraterrestrial life. I mean, unless they're suicidal and they don't mind ceasing to be.

    And yeah, maybe one black hole leads to another. Or maybe they bridge universes. The nearest black hole is still 1600 lightyears away.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but the facts raise as many doubts as they do possibilities. So I'm not really sure why someone's conviction about extraterrestrial landings would be unshakable unless they were visited by a flesh and blood alien.

    Also, I'm skeptical of Steven Greer's methods of communicating with extraterrestrials; as someone who regularly meditates, I can confirm that under the right conditions, meditation can send you into a state of extreme suggestibility. Hypnosis, for instance, can be used, with coercion, to create false memories in a patient, rendering them psychotic.

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