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  1. #41
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    I just think I've posted enough in this thread for a while
    @Peguy

    Heey, I like it. You guys are discussing what this thread is about.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

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  2. #42
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    To avoid criticism, do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
    ~ Elbert Hubbard

    Music provides one of the clearest examples of a much deeper relation between mathematics and human experience.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    This is the idealism and condescension which all non-Americans get offended by.

    I can't be bothered breaking down your post too much, but you need to do some research. Freedom, equality, et cetera, are not American values. They were first really put forward by John Locke, an Englishman, and expanded in the Enlightenment. Democratic ideals first appeared in Classical Athens. So don't bash Europe, that's where your views come from.

    Your founding fathers also had opinions on immigration vastly different to what you've expressed, and I suggest that if you are loyal to your nation (and just not some neocon, which is what I suspect) you go and read them. I am not American, but even I know that Ben Franklin wanted immigration to be restricted to English and Irish people, and that Thomas Jefferson was against interracial marriage and thought blacks should not live in the same country as whites. I am not making this up, read it for yourself. I am not aware that they had opinions on climate change however
    As an American who has visited the Netherlands often, with best friends that are Dutch, I am also offended by the statements (all of which I disagree with.)

  4. #44
    failed poetry slam career chubber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KittyrinahasCupquake View Post
    I am Australian (Not EU but still) and I really have nothing against Americans, so no I would never say that there is something wrong with it, just a few things I could nitpick but no
    The complaints goes from this: Australians first, then Americans, then probably South Africans

  5. #45
    Male johnnyyukon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kullervo View Post
    Your founding fathers also had opinions on immigration vastly different to what you've expressed, and I suggest that if you are loyal to your nation (and just not some neocon, which is what I suspect) you go and read them. I am not American, but even I know that Ben Franklin wanted immigration to be restricted to English and Irish people, and that Thomas Jefferson was against interracial marriage and thought blacks should not live in the same country as whites. I am not making this up, read it for yourself. I am not aware that they had opinions on climate change however
    No doubt many of the founding fathers were racist, and Washington owned slaves. But at least Washington changed his views on it throughout the course of his life. He was raised in a society where slavery was "normal and right." But he changed, and freed his slaves in his will.

    "Washington, who was then forty-six years old and had been a slave owner for thirty-five years, confided to a cousin that he longed "every day...more and more to get clear" of the ownership of slaves.7"

    "I hope it will not be conceived from these observations, that it is my wish to hold the unhappy people, who are the subject of this letter, in slavery. I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it; but there is only one proper and effectual mode by which it can be accomplished, and that is by Legislative authority; and this, as far as my suffrage will go, shall never be wanting."9


    The BIGGER point is, none of that racist crap made it into the constitution, despite some of the opinions of the founding fathers.
    I've had this ice cream bar, since I was a child!

    Each thought's completely warped
    I'm like a walkin', talkin', ouija board.

  6. #46
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    Oh great, yet another thread where Europeans are asked about their opinion on America only for the thread to get quickly highjacked by Americans telling them how they've got it all wrong. Can't wait for some more of the usual suspects to show up.

    :popcorn:
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
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  7. #47
    Senior Member Nicodemus's Avatar
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    Americans are like other people, just more so.

  8. #48
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Oh great, yet another thread where Europeans are asked about their opinion on America only for the thread to get quickly highjacked by Americans telling them how they've got it all wrong. Can't wait for some more of the usual suspects to show up.

    :popcorn:
    maybe they're hoping Europeans will get more pissed and blow up the US, feel free to blow up Florida.
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  9. #49
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    Oh great, yet another thread where Europeans are asked about their opinion on America only for the thread to get quickly highjacked by Americans telling them how they've got it all wrong. Can't wait for some more of the usual suspects to show up.

    :popcorn:
    When has discussion about the nature of biased generalisations ever wielded any results? Threads like these never have potential to begin with, they're nothing more then mere entertainment. A premise built on upside down foundations will never reach for the sky. All it does is sink, deeper and deeper.. *steals some popcorn*
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyyukon View Post
    No doubt many of the founding fathers were racist, and Washington owned slaves. But at least Washington changed his views on it throughout the course of his life. He was raised in a society where slavery was "normal and right." But he changed, and freed his slaves in his will.

    "Washington, who was then forty-six years old and had been a slave owner for thirty-five years, confided to a cousin that he longed "every day...more and more to get clear" of the ownership of slaves.7"

    "I hope it will not be conceived from these observations, that it is my wish to hold the unhappy people, who are the subject of this letter, in slavery. I can only say that there is not a man living who wishes more sincerely than I do, to see a plan adopted for the abolition of it; but there is only one proper and effectual mode by which it can be accomplished, and that is by Legislative authority; and this, as far as my suffrage will go, shall never be wanting."9


    The BIGGER point is, none of that racist crap made it into the constitution, despite some of the opinions of the founding fathers.
    Slavery is a completely different issue to immigration, and it's completely dishonest for you to compare the two. You do not have to support slavery to want your country to be ethnically homogenous, though liberals try and make it seem like all the people who think this way want to own slaves as well.

    The first US immigration act, the Naturalisation Act, specifically spoke of free, white men. The reason racial restrictions on immigration were not put into the American Constitution, in fact legal documents i can think of in any country for that matter, was because they were agreed upon. These things were considered to be obvious and nobody at the time could've suspected that leftist agitators would successfully undermine their wishes centuries later.

    I can guarantee that all of the Founding Fathers would find America's inhabitants unrecognizable today.

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