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Thread: Halal Meat

  1. #11
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicodemus View Post
    And actual cruelty?
    If religious freedom is involved, that's not enough unless there is solid evidence that the 'actual cruelty' in question strongly promotes anti-social behavior in humans (so torturing pet animals is out, slitting the throat of a meat animal for specific dietary reasons is not).

  2. #12
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    If religious freedom is involved, that's not enough unless there is solid evidence that the 'actual cruelty' in question strongly promotes anti-social behavior in humans (so torturing pet animals is out, slitting the throat of a meat animal for specific dietary reasons is not).
    I think if I was a cow I'd rather have my throat slit than bludgeon to death
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  3. #13
    Senior Member lowtech redneck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prplchknz View Post
    I think if I was a cow I'd rather have my throat slit than bludgeon to death
    Yeah, there's that, too......I guess my preference would depend on whether I'm knocked out after the first blow.

  4. #14
    Senior Member prplchknz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtech redneck View Post
    Yeah, there's that, too......I guess my preference would depend on whether I'm knocked out after the first blow.
    I'm just assuming I wouldn't
    In no likes experiment.

    that is all

    i dunno what else to say so

  5. #15
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Does it have to be hung upside down to be slaughtered this way? Because that's the only thing that seems exceptionally distressing. They don't have to yell those words at the animal? They can say them softly and calmly?
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  6. #16
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    I think it's a bit ethnocentric to think this is far outside of any other way of slaughtering an animal. Shoot it, stab it, break its neck, slash it, whatever you do, you're taking life. Most of the ways are over fairly quickly any way you look at it. Shooting it isn't THAT much faster of a death than bleeding out from a slashed throat. I really don't care how the animal is killed as long as it's done quickly. No death is completely devoid of pain.. the body is literally designed to fight against death and live as long as possible.. so to say there is a humane way to kill at all.. it's sort of a sliding scale, versus an absolute black and white. Some people find that any killing is inhumane because you're taking life for food you don't really need. Some people think as long as you hunt it yourself it is fine, because shooting it is a fast death. Some people think as long as it was raised to be eaten and you kill it quickly it is fine. The first case means that almost no animals are humanely killed no matter what methods were used. The last case means that as long as the death was aimed at being quick, and it doesn't have to be at your hands, that it was a satisfactory kill... but if someone messed up because they're new it isn't the end of the world either.

    Personally.. Halal meat isn't any more invasive than Kosher meat. I don't agree with religious restrictions on food because I'm not that kind of religious, but I respect that people need their Godly foods for their Godly things. I don't see any supermarkets turning all of their meats and produce into Halal style, so I don't think it's a concern. If the ONLY meat I had available to me was Halal meat because I went to a grocery store owned and operated by a Muslim or catering to Muslims, I wouldn't be upset at all.. not anymore than I'd be upset at seeing fish in an Asian grocery.. but if it started infiltrating the places I typically shop at, which only have a small section available usually, I might get irritated. I just don't see that being a reality.

    I'm not in the UK, I don't know for certain, but I'm fairly confident that grocery stores will continue to have a good supply of non halal meat for those that aren't muslim. There are people who think that meat eaters are savages and they still get to eat meat. So, I don't think it's a stretch to tell people to get out of their ethnic comfort zone when it comes to things being done differently in other cultures.
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  7. #17
    IRL is not real Cimarron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    Does it have to be hung upside down to be slaughtered this way? Because that's the only thing that seems exceptionally distressing. They don't have to yell those words at the animal? They can say them softly and calmly?
    That's for draining the body of all the blood, I think. So I would think the butcher could wait until after the animal's dead to hang it upside down (just speculating there). However, the problem with that is that there are probably already established "traditional" methods that have decided what is most effective, so it might be hard to introduce change into those rules.

    Anyway, theoretically, it's supposed to be designed to minimize suffering of the animal (I think), so the main question is "does it or doesn't it?" But again, the Muslim community would probably consider that an internal debate on how to proceed with their custom.
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    All kinds of slaughter will breach the rights of animals.
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  9. #19
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    halal meat usually tastes better so...
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cimarron View Post
    That's for draining the body of all the blood, I think. So I would think the butcher could wait until after the animal's dead to hang it upside down (just speculating there). However, the problem with that is that there are probably already established "traditional" methods that have decided what is most effective, so it might be hard to introduce change into those rules.

    Anyway, theoretically, it's supposed to be designed to minimize suffering of the animal (I think), so the main question is "does it or doesn't it?" But again, the Muslim community would probably consider that an internal debate on how to proceed with their custom.
    Right. It was designed to prevent the animal suffering using technology from centuries ago. There a lot of things that probably did good stuff (to some degree) back then that we don't allow legally in developed countries now because it's considered inhumane.

    I did a little looking and It *looks* like the animals are cut and then hung while bleeding to death, which makes sense because once the heart stops beating the blood has only gravity to move it. It looks like it only takes a few minutes and they struggle during that time. I'm not sure how much of that struggle is the same kind of thing as a chicken running around with it's head off, though, and how much is a conscious fear/pain reaction.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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