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Thread: on guns

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Gun issues is near the bottom of my list of issues I care about or feel are important. I have my opinions on it, but at the end of the day, I am mostly apathetic, for the reasons that you just quoted. I focus my energies elsewhere where I think I'll be of use, make progress, and be useful.
    Why don't you sit down and write a letter to Meryl Streep offering your services in her bid for gun control.

    I understand Meryl has the support of rich and powerful Americans, why don't you join them?

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peguy View Post
    And we still don't care.
    Not caring is a moral problem. This is a problem of the heart. And the solution is change of heart.

  3. #83
    I could do things Hard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    Why don't you sit down and write a letter to Meryl Streep offering your services in her bid for gun control.

    I understand Meryl has the support of rich and powerful Americans, why don't you join them?
    I don't care about Meryl Streep in this regard. I already said; I focus my energies elsewhere.
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  4. #84
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    This is a silly argument as there is no reliable data for how much violence guns prevent though I can tell you from my observations the media does a piss-poor job of reporting when conceal carry folks save the day. Moreover, it presumes that the value of life is the only value considered when it comes to gun control.
    For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Go ahead and roll over if you want to, but forgive me if I don't. Anyway, the idea that we already have some tyranny does not mean that taking away guns doesn't risk even more tyranny.
    I'm not advocating rolling over. I'm saying having a bunch of guns everywhere is not working and it's a crutch that lets us pretend we aren't under tyranny. We're just killing each other off, not doing anything constructive.



    Quote Originally Posted by Beorn View Post
    Your argument fails for the reasons above. I don't know why you insist on maligning people who disagree with you. You can still be right without your opponents being insane and irrational.
    I don't think people are terrible for believing guns are doing the stuff you say they are. It's a huge part of our culture and we're fed it with our mother's milk. But other wealthy countries do not have the murder rates we do. I like to believe it's not because we are inferior human beings, and that might be irrational of me. There are a few differences: our crappy safety net/socioeconomic inequality, our very uneven access to healthcare, and lots and lots of guns.

    Most homicides and suicides are not premeditated. People get upset and in the US, when they do that, they sometimes grab the gun out of the nightstand and shoot themselves or someone they are upset with. When they do, often a death results. In countries where guns are less available, people still stab people, etc but fewer of them die because there aren't many things deadlier than a gun.

    If guns are not doing the good things they are supposed to be doing and they are doing a bunch of bad stuff they are not supposed to be doing, our enthusiastic attachment to them does not seem rational to me. It's like if my car would only go forward one out of every ten times I tried to drive it, but I still insisted it was an amazing car because my grandpa had one just like it.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    C'mon, we loved the British Empire.

    When WW II ended we voluntarily gave Britain one billion dollars without any strings attached.

    The Americans by contrast made Britain pay off war debts right up to the present day.

    And America cut the throat of the British Empire at Suez by threatening to crash the British pound.

    And these same sweet Americans destroyed our fledgeling movies industry by the same technique of threatening to crash the Australian dollar.
    Countries pay for losing wars even losing wars where the other country is smaller. The British Empire has followed this rule along with the French, the Spanish, and the Portuguese. It was just the case that the Empire rarely ever lost, even against the French and the Spaniards, that she kept following these rules. One does not implement these rules and decide that it ain't fair when one loses. Even though France had a stake, she helped us towards independence from our British overlords. The empire made us pay crushing taxes for wars she created on our soil. She quartered her troops onto our homes without our permission. She stole food from us without permission. And anyone who didn't follow her rules were punished.

    If I remember correctly, after Germany lost WWI, Germany was pushed into crushing debt by Britain and France.

    You are talking about Corporate America which is just like Corporate Australia, except, I heard you guys don't care about the Great Barrier Reef right now.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mole View Post
    What a sensible question. And what a sensible Coriolis.

    It is a similar question to, what is sexual pornography. Courts have been asking this question for some time. And it is a difficult question to answer.

    Perhaps we can start by saying that the purpose of pornography is visceral arousal.

    And it seems to me that some pictures of gunmen and women are designed for visceral arousal.

    On another tack, pornography only shows half the picture. Sexual pornography doesn't show birth, or the results of sexually transmitted disease, or the fact that men buy the bodies of women, or that pornography is the graphic depiction of the brothel, or that some pornography is the result of human trafficking.

    In the same way, gun pornography only shows half the picture. Gun pornography only shows pictures of beautiful guns and does not show the physical, psychological and social effects of gunshot wounds.

    In short, both sexual and gun pornography, not only excite visceral arousal, but they have no integrity at all in that they only show half the picture.
    Can I presume that some people without a bright mind might fetish-size some of the images that I showed onto this thread? And when you mean pornography, you mean those images that do not show the end result, but viewers may idealize it as a result? Sort of like ideation of some sort of not so bright minds?

  7. #87
    LL P. Stewie Beorn's Avatar
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    I said reliable data. I don't think data that covers just 18 months in 3 cities is conclusive evidence for federal gun control.

    Anyway, I don't really want to bother getting into an argument about data as my argument stands no matter what data you pull. Gun rights activists do not weigh lives the same way you do and your mistaking that for irrationality.


    I'm not advocating rolling over. I'm saying having a bunch of guns everywhere is not working and it's a crutch that lets us pretend we aren't under tyranny. We're just killing each other off, not doing anything constructive.
    Well, personally I'm glad we haven't had enough tyranny to justify use of force against the state and I'm hopeful that will never be the case. However, if we do get to that point we'll be totally helpless. Would you support gun control laws in Russia or some other oppressive government? It's just a matter of what you're willing to give up for safety. Gun rights activists are just willing to give up less than you.



    I don't think people are terrible for believing guns are doing the stuff you say they are. It's a huge part of our culture and we're fed it with our mother's milk.
    I wasn't. I'm the son of an Englishman and have only fired a gun once in my life. I came to my position of my own accord.

    But other wealthy countries do not have the murder rates we do. I like to believe it's not because we are inferior human beings, and that might be irrational of me. There are a few differences: our crappy safety net/socioeconomic inequality, our very uneven access to healthcare, and lots and lots of guns.
    Yeah, well I saw more violence in the UK in 6 weeks there than I've seen in America my whole life. I got punched out of nowhere in the streets of Edinborough by a drunk hoodlum and had stop a guy from beating his girlfriend in a London tube station so forgive me if I think the safety net over there doesn't do shit and these problems are just plain cultural, social, moral, and spiritual problems.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Please define exactly what you mean by "gun pornography" - in other words, what specific kinds of pictures you would prefer not to see here.
    I'll know it when I see it.

  9. #89
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    I'll know it when I see it.
    Is this the standard members would prefer the modstaff use when enforcing forum rules?
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Is this the standard members would prefer the modstaff use when enforcing forum rules?
    If it flies in the Supreme Court...

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